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The Psychological Edge
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Author:  Kirby [ Thu May 20, 2010 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  The Psychological Edge
Go is a long game. You can play well for awhile, then crack and fall behind. Any tips for keeping a positive morale throughout the battle? I guess the. basic answer is to "just do it", but I thought I'd ask...
Author:  Chew Terr [ Thu May 20, 2010 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
Make a goal. A few times lately I've been in games against a much stronger opponent over a real board. As the game progressed, I found myself setting small goals. "If I don't lose any of my big groups, I'll be as happy as if I'd won". "I want to be really happy with my endgame, even if I'm still behind after". "I want to see how a 3-4 attachment works in this corner, regardless of risk". In a slow game, go get some chocolate milk. Though chocolate milk may count as a performance-enhancing drug. =D

Anyhow, if you focus on your smaller goals, you may get less frustrated with the overall game. By trying for something achievable, you may play better overall. In one of the games where I just wanted to make undeniable life for my groups (after which I would see if I was far enough behind to resign), I ended up killing a 20 stone dragon that was chasing me. Because I was focused on living instead of winning, I played better than I normally did, and managed to not make a fatal mistake.

I know you're a lot better at go than me, but this is something I've been doing lately that's helping me, so it's worth a shot.
Author:  Kirby [ Thu May 20, 2010 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
Chew Terr wrote:
Make a goal...

I know you're a lot better at go than me, but this is something I've been doing lately that's helping me, so it's worth a shot.


Thanks for the input, Chew. I must say that I usually only think of winning. I never thought of making smaller goals like you say. I think it's a good idea.

By the way, as for this last quote, I appreciate your advice just the same whether you are 30k or 9d.
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Fri May 21, 2010 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
My usual approach is to stand up and go away for a minute ^^ After a deep breath, I take a fresh look at the situation and try to figure out, which chances I still have, where I could attack or make territory. I consider some bad overplay situations, too, but in most cases I won't play them, when I know they actually wouldn't work because it just feels cheap.

And yeah, I also try to always win the game and it really sucks to lose one, but well, then I think, if you would have been better, you could have won. In most games, which I lost, I atleast played one big blunder, so I can blame this for losing and that way I know what I need to make better the next time.


Losing is learning =D
Author:  SpongeBob [ Fri May 21, 2010 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
I think keeping up a positive attitude is really very important. Sometimes when my games do not go the way I would like them to and I am thinking that I made some stupid move or some mistake, I will lose that positive attitude in an instant. I will lose the game and when I go over the game afterwards, I realize that after the move that I thought was bad I still had every chance to recover from it. But because of the bad attitude that I was in, blaming me for the bad move I made, I ended up making more bad moves from which I eventually had no chance to recover from.

So to deal with it I try to mentally step back from the board once in a while and look at the situation to get an unbiased judgement.

And two, which I think is even more important, and also is related to the psychological component, I try to really think about every move before I make it. Because I think losing the positive attitude is most of the time because you get angry about not so much about the bad move that you made, but because you realize you did not think enough about the move and could have done better if you would have thought about it before. If it then turns out to be wrong, you really have something to learn from - if you lose because of moves that were not thought through, there will not be some much to learn from.
Author:  nami [ Fri May 21, 2010 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
maybe this little trick works if you cant concentrate for so long:
learn or study especially yose/endgame for some time.
When playing a long game, and you have troubles for concentrating, when entering the yose/endgame phase it's like: "Ah, finally my turn to test my new skills" and you're focused again ;)

and once you did it for some games, it's no problem at all anymore
Author:  Solomon [ Fri May 21, 2010 4:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
You can be the happiest or the saddest person in the world, but the goban and the stones won't share your feelings. In other words, I think maintaining positive morality is neither essential nor the reason why players crack and fall behind from a winning position (the answer to the latter is usually carelessness). Instead of maintaining positive morality, I think it's more important to maintain a high level of concentration. Put more faith in your reading, not in your emotions/mental state.
Author:  gaius [ Fri May 21, 2010 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
What I do during every serious tournament game:

  • Try to "step back" and evaluate the situation, relative strength/weakness of all groups, important points, flow of the game, etc. at every turning point. Sometimes, particularly in the opening, I do this at almost every move. Sometimes I do it only when a certain read-out sequence comes to a halt.
  • Force myself to read out every reasonable answer to my move, even the ones of which I initially think "oh, he probably won't play there anyway, it looks somewhat overplay-ish and I don't feel like reading it out". Those are the kind of places where you can go really wrong...
  • If I'm really dissatisfied with a result up to the point that my disgust with the shape is affecting my concentration, I walk away for one or two minutes, even if it's my turn.
  • If my energy level is low, I drink either cola or coffee depending on my blood sugar level at that point in time.

Other than that, it kind of goes automatically for me. Though.. every game does cost me tons of energy, but I suppose that's normal in a tournament.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri May 21, 2010 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
Kirby wrote:
Go is a long game.


Isn't one of the Chinese names for go the long game? :)

Quote:
You can play well for awhile, then crack and fall behind. Any tips for keeping a positive morale throughout the battle? I guess the. basic answer is to "just do it", but I thought I'd ask...


Something that may be pertinent. When I was learning go I made the typical mistakes of trying to read out everything and of playing too long in one region. Later, when I realized my problem with doing the latter, I made (without intending to) a virtue out of vice. I still read several moves into local positions before playing elsewhere. (As part of deciding when to tenuki, OC I read the moves with each player going first.) As a result I had plans and expectations for later play. In a way, that gave me something to look forward to. :)
Author:  xed_over [ Fri May 21, 2010 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
Araban wrote:
Put more faith in your reading, not in your emotions/mental state.

sure, but you don't think ones emotions can affect their level of concentration and cause mistakes in their reading?
Author:  CheeseNPickle [ Fri May 21, 2010 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
Perhaps when you're as strong a player as Araban, but for a weak player like me my emotional state influences me - "hmm I don't know if I can invade there, ho hum I guess I'd probably die...- I won't bother" being a typical failing, or "oh it's midnight, I'm tired and will probably lose" - before I start. It's no way to learn how to handle those tricky situations I know. There's also a bit in Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go when one of Kageyama's superiors suggest his lapses in confidence are letting him down (I think).

As for techniques, Sports psychology has a lot to say about training to get the psychological edge. I found this article interesting (words of wisdom from the hulk): http://www.exrx.net/Bodybuilding/Ferrigno.html It probably just says the obvious really but I was really impressed by how relevant I thought it was to Go when I read it a couple of days ago. I've got a book on order http://www.amazon.com/Pursuit-Excellence-4th-Terry-Orlick/dp/0736067574/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274475851&sr=1-1.

Some people in Chess seem to be taking this sort of thing seriously but I've never heard of it used in Go.

EDIT: as for helping concentration, I've been experimenting with Matcha tea http://www.sleepwarrior.com/matcha-green-tea
Quote:
This means that the caffeine from green tea is gradually released over the course of 6-8 hours, unlike the short burst from coffee.
Author:  Suji [ Fri May 21, 2010 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
Araban wrote:
You can be the happiest or the saddest person in the world, but the goban and the stones won't share your feelings. In other words, I think maintaining positive morality is neither essential nor the reason why players crack and fall behind from a winning position (the answer to the latter is usually carelessness). Instead of maintaining positive morality, I think it's more important to maintain a high level of concentration. Put more faith in your reading, not in your emotions/mental state.


With all due respect, I disagree. Emotions, at least for me, can play a sometimes crucial role in the outcome of a game. As a chess example (I don't have many Go examples, but I think that this is still relevant.), I was playing a game with someone probably over 400 rating points above me. He played a rare and dubious opening, although it is an entertaining variation for both sides, and we both knew that I was "winning" at a certain point in the game. I put winning in quotes since during that game I've experienced some of the strongest doses of fear, confidence, and complacency that I've ever felt in my life. All three played a crucial role in determining the outcome of that game. I lost.
Author:  Magicwand [ Fri May 21, 2010 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
as you already said "go is a long game."
you must remember that one mistake will not lose the game.
so when you make a mistake you must not make another mistake that follows the initial mistake.
if you can do that usually you mistake will be a small loss and you still have a chance to win.
Author:  MountainGo [ Sat May 22, 2010 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
I've been thinking a lot recently about striving for complete emotional detachment from the outcome of the game. If I feel joy or, even worse, relief as a result of winning, that is just as bad as feeling sad after losing. One cannot exist without the other. Instead I try to feel a constant contentment with playing the game. When a good move is played against me, I try to avoid feeling worried but rather enjoy the battle just as I would if watching someone else's game. And if this all seems very connected to Eastern religion, that's no coincidence for me.
Author:  uglyboxer [ Sat May 22, 2010 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
It is easy to underestimate the importance of physical conditioning in the game of Go. While there are many factors that affect concentration (many mentioned above). Improving physical conditioning absolutely improves your ability to sit still and stay focussed longer. Still doesn't make it any easier to step out the front door for that jog though. :mrgreen:
Author:  shapenaji [ Sat May 22, 2010 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
Araban wrote:
You can be the happiest or the saddest person in the world, but the goban and the stones won't share your feelings. In other words, I think maintaining positive morality is neither essential nor the reason why players crack and fall behind from a winning position (the answer to the latter is usually carelessness). Instead of maintaining positive morality, I think it's more important to maintain a high level of concentration. Put more faith in your reading, not in your emotions/mental state.


...Oh, I hate myself for doing this...(chalk it up to OCD of some form or other) "positive morale"

But I think morale can have a huge effect. A high level of concentration is extremely important, but I don't think human beings can completely separate their feelings about a position from their analysis by simply concentrating.

I think good morale makes concentration easier, and likewise, bad morale will limit your ability to concentrate. Your reading will be better/deeper if you're feeling better. Many tomes on military strategy have huge sections devoted to morale (see Sun Tzu).

As long as you're a member of the human race, your excitement, or lack of, will affect the way you play. If you learn to control it, you can indirectly improve your concentration.

EDIT: To paraphrase Sun Tzu,

Concentration is a matter of emptiness and fullness. A full concentration vs. an empty one is like rocks thrown at eggs
Author:  daal [ Sun May 23, 2010 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
Hmm. It doesn't seem possible to "rate this thread," but if it was, I'd certainly give it a couple of stars.

I love the fact that there are so many good answers, ranging from the very practical to the metaphysical. I personally think Magicwand's suggestion has immense practical value regarding the question Kirby posed, because moments where we realize that we've made a mistake are often what can lead to the emotional breakdown. I was also caught up with MountainGo's comment, which although I thought was bonk when I first read it, was the first thing I was thinking about when I woke up this morning, because it pointed in the direction of the larger perspective. What do we want from go? The thrill of victory, the agony of defeat? To improve our minds? To prove something to ourselves? To have fun? We've all heard of and can empathize with Kirby's quest for the 3rd "d" mention. When I logged into KGS this morning, I saw that my rank had finally crossed over to 6k, and immediately logged out instead of playing as I had planned. Man, these emotional hurdles are all over the place, and some detachment might make for a smoother run...but on the other hand ambition is also a motor.

I guess I just want to add that because the problem is by nature circular, all inputs of positive energy will help to keep the wheel rolling, and finding value in your failures might do that as well.

As Kageyama points out quoting Fukuzawa "Confidence is born of strength, and strength of confidence." Of professional go players he also writes: "His mental, physical and emotional strength all have to be fully developed." With most of us rank amateurs, this is not the case. We have plenty of deficits, and one or the other will be responsible for our losses, will cause us to "crack and fall behind." Or not. Sometimes it happens to the other guy. About half the time. Luck? Karma? While a go game may be long, it's just a moment in your go career.

As Thomas Edison once said: "Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several thousand things that won't work."
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Sun May 23, 2010 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Psychological Edge
I can't remember where I saw this originally (it may have even been a link from godiscussions), but this seems like an appropriate read for the topic.

Edit: mild language warning. Lots of magic the gathering references which go completely over my head, hehe.
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