Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6574		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  GhostWhite [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
I almost invariably go down to byoyomi, and it is a rare occasion that my opponent uses more time than I do. In fact, it is not uncommon for them to not use even 1/4 of the time they have. I don't think the twenty+ minutes I use is pushing it, but when the opponent practically insta-replies to my moves, even taking account them thinking on my time, then what could possibly go on in their minds? What could one possibly learn when using knee jerk moves time after time? Doing something, whatever the thing is, without actively trying to become better, what is the point?

I mostly play on Tygem, and I understand it has a slightly different mentality than KGS for example, but if you want fast games, then why accept longer time settings? And even if taking into account the sandbaggery, what satisfaction could one get from playing against a clearly inferior opponent you don't even need to think against to win? GO is confusing but, damn, people are even more so. :scratch:

Maybe it is something people expect there, to be quick, but it just doesn't seem beneficial to actually becoming a better player IMO. Seems such a waste to see thousands upon thousands of people online in there, and the majority of them are in a horrible hurry. I don't understand the mentality, for I believe if something is worth doing, it is worth doing well enough to actually improve yourself. Actually, I don't really understand blitz games at all, but maybe I am a slowpoke mentally, and surrounded by superior humans.
Author:  mw42 [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
This type of opponent is one of the most frustrating for me to play against. I usually see it accompanied with a style that involves many bold invasions into my areas on influence. I feel that this strategy is concerned with winning on average as opposed to any particular game; playing in a way that minimizes his time spent and aiming to ignore yose (i.e. win by resignation).

I hate it. I am usually goaded into playing just as fast as him and losing as a result. I cannot shake the feeling that I am being disrespected by playing against an opponent who is not taking the game seriously.
Author:  Boidhre [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
One of the hardest things I've found is playing at my own pace when my opponent plays fast. Learning to do this has proven to be much more difficult than I expected. It is damn unnerving when someone plays at blitz speed in a slow game. You're constantly feeling like you've misread something.
Author:  LocoRon [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
GhostWhite wrote:
Doing something, whatever the thing is, without actively trying to become better, what is the point?


Go is a game; the point for many is simply to have fun. :)
Author:  mw42 [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
LocoRon wrote:
Go is a game; the point for many is simply to have fun. :)


Go... fun? Ha, what a joke!
Author:  illluck [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
What's wrong with them using their time the way they prefer?

disclaimer: I'm a blitz player on longer time settings :p
Author:  Laman [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
i am more concerned with what happens on the board and i left Korean servers for that reason; i don't really care how my opponent uses his time allowance. i only hate when he blitzes on slow setting and then starts making comments on how slow you play. 'dude, you set up a 30 mins game, i agreed, so i will use them as i see fit'

PS: the last sentence follows from the previous one (where i am the slow guy), but funnily enough, it can be understood as the opposite and as a direct answer to the OP :)
Author:  Phoenix [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
I usually play on IGS and I see this all the time. I've seen matches with an allocated hour apiece where the players took less than ten seconds each move! :scratch:

I don't want to be the guy who takes forever in those cases, but I take the extra ten seconds every now and then and win. Simple as that. These servers need to be swarmed with slower players who have the control to push ahead at their own pace. It could be a revolution! :D

IMO, Go was never meant to be the crazy, fast-paced game it is today on online servers. Look at what pros consider to be 'lightning' games. Sure, we're not pros, but by that token we're not quite good enough to play a reasonable game with 4-second moves.

It's all about confidence and emotional control. Keep on reading and win games, or at least play a game that won't make you feel sick when you review it!
Author:  Bantari [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
"Those who drive faster than me are irresponsible idiots, those who drive slower than me are morons preventing traffic flow, and those who drive exactly like me are in my blind spot and should get off the road!"

Bottom line - people will always find something to get irritated about.
Why don't you all get irritated at yourselves for getting irritated by what others quite legally do.

Tsk tsk... such lack of tolerance.
Just play your game and don't worry. If your opponent plays too slow or too fast or whatever - its their right to use the time as they feel is best.
Author:  xed_over [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
I can't believe I've agreed with something Bantari has posted :)
maybe I have crossed over.
Author:  singular [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
In principle I don't mind people playing whatever speed they want to play. My opponents have their own freedom within the time constraints and I'm slow for some. But in practise I experience some kind of rip tide against faster players wherein I'm sucked in to playing faster, and it can irritate at times. I'm not irritated at my opponent, though, it's more a scar on my psychology in that I'm not coolly independent all the time and have to resist, and expend energy, against the speed of others. What's the the nature of this weird speed-coercion? . . . Politeness? Fear of mental inferiority? Something subconscious going with the flow? It's weird it exists.
Author:  hailthorn011 [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
I tend to do it out of habit, honestly. It's not great for winning a lot of the time, so I suppose it's one of those habits I should break. But really, I don't have a problem with how fast or slow someone plays. If someone plays too slow I can read Ender's Game (currently reading) or listen to music.

What I DO have a problem with is those players who talk condescendingly while in a game whether winning or losing. Or if you do something nice, the belittle it, and make it seem like it was worthless. Or just being rather rude in general.
Author:  lemmata [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
hailthorn011 wrote:
What I DO have a problem with is those players who talk condescendingly while in a game whether winning or losing. Or if you do something nice, the belittle it, and make it seem like it was worthless. Or just being rather rude in general.

Agreed 200%. I've had this happen to me a couple times on KGS. It makes me shake my fist in the air. Why these rude morons feel that I have some moral obligation to play out a game with 25 minutes of main time in 5 minutes is anyone's guess.
Author:  DJLLAP [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
For me, I have to exercise a lot of self control not to play too fast. I am not sure why that is my inclination. Maybe using less time and still winning makes me feel smarter, but losing doesn't smart as much because I wasn't trying my best. When I take my time and really think through my moves, my strength goes up a couple stones. It should be a no brainer to play like this all the time, but it goes against my natural inclination so much it is often easier to just play fast.
Author:  mw42 [ Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
So often when someone makes a comment on a certain style like the OP's or mine it meets the reply "they can play how they want." Of course they can! We were just expressing our confusion (in the OP's case) and frustration (mine).
Author:  hyperpape [ Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
I agree that it's best not to get upset. But the idea behind a time limit is that both players will take the time to think and play a good game. One player is not doing that, so why shouldn't the other play think that it's a little disappointing?
Author:  PeterHB [ Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
Bantari nailed it.

I play around 95% of my moves at under 10 secs a move, but play 5% at 3 to 5 minutes a move, i.e. the ones where I can't read it nearly immediately. I have no idea what people are thinking about when they take 2 or 3 minutes for every move. I wish I knew what they think about, but whatever it is, many people clearly place a lot of importance on the options they are considering. I can't see those options. I can only see 3 or 4 reasonable moves, and choose one, pretty much to see what happens. The longer I wait after having come up with a satisfactory move, the more time I give myself to come up with an off the wall, totally silly move. The line between finding the perfect move and idiocy is very fine. Satisfactory is often good enough.

Crucially, if the next 5 moves the opponent plays are the ones I predicted in my intial reading, then I don't re-read, I just play the moves. I see it as important to have the confidence to play out the moves that I had already judged as being good for me. i.e. the opponent is playing into my planned line, so why should I object? So no need to think, just play, until we get to the end of sequence I had read out. That's the time to stop and consider.

I don't do much reading out of possibilities, but if I do, it is generally on the opponent's clock time, as I have to wait anyway.

Its just a different way of playing, and it does have limitations for improving, but its fun. I prefer to look at the result afterwards to learn. If my moves are terrible, my opponent will demonstrate it by handing out a crushing defeat. If not, I have to think whether I just won by unpunished overplay, or by good moves. That is difficult. Much easier to learn by the opponent demonstrating my errors.

I don't like being in time trouble and then need to take 5 minutes to look at a difficult situation, so I play medium time settings, even though many moves are near instant. Just a different way of looking at the problem of managing time in a way that allows the game to be enjoyable. I don't want to be under the cosh of time pressure.

The strengths of this way of playing are: it makes you strong at the opening, at reading the life and death, and invasions. The comment about going for the kill, and thus finishing the game long before yose is apt.

The weakness of this way of playing is: judging competing moyo situations, counting, and judgement of miai yose. So if you want to create a nightmare for my kind of play, just create a moyo that is only 10 points larger than my territory possibilities, with no obvious invasion point. Nothing too greedy, and intend to win in the yose. You are likely to trigger a rash invasion, as fine counting is impossible at reflex speed. Then cooly use your time and patience to respond appropriately to the invasion, and you take control of the game.
Author:  gowan [ Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
If you are a slow player then from your perspective an opponent who plays at a ten seconds per move pace robs you of thinking time, assuming that you do think while awaiting your opponent's move. During your opponent's thinking time you can do many things: count the balance of territory, assess the value of thickness, make overall strategic plans, decide for sure whether some stones are alive as they stand or need to make life if surrounded, visualize in a general way how the game might go for several moves, look for weaknesses in your opponent's positions, evaluate the size of endgame moves, decide whether moves are sente or not, etc. Thus, for example, if you set the game up as having 30 minutes main time you might expect actually to have more like 45 minutes to an hour of main thinking time. But if your opponent plays blitz from the getgo you are effectively limited to just over 30 minutes main time. No wonder it's frustrating. But you can take countermeasures. Your opponent is probably accustomed to playing fast and not thinking much about moves so if you make the game complicated and requiring careful, thought-out play, your opponent will be more likely to make hasty moves or careless mistakes.
Author:  Phelan [ Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
I agree with PeterHB. I usually play most of my moves pretty fast, but there are some occasions that I really need to read a longer/complicated sequence, or assess the overall balance. When I try playing faster time settings, I'm usually starved for time in the end, if I don't actually lose on time.
Author:  Phoenix [ Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why do people play blitz even on longer time settings?
I think the issue isn't so much the opponent's use of their time. They can do whatever they want. I don't really care at all, and that's the key for me. The problem many players have facing this kind of opponent is twofold; they get sucked into the pace and they get emotional.

You'll find many quotes all over the Go world about how your moves will always show your emotional state. Pros are apt to stress the importance of playing with a clear mind. We've all had the experience of playing a crappy game when something was bothering us at the time.

Similarly, playing outside of your normal pace will cause errors, whether it's too fast or slow. Bear in mind, however, that it's important to experiment with different time settings. You have to learn to squeeze more reading in a smaller time frame if you want to get stronger. So the rule is to not follow the opponent's pace if you don't want to.

The best way to do this is to play your move, read your variations, count, choose your tactics, and simply play ahead regardless of the opponent. Playing five seconds a move when your opponent does it isn't polite, it's just impulsive. It disrespects the game of Go. The trick for me is to focus on the stones and the elements of Go and only those. The opponent doesn't exist. And while I also like to use my opponent's time to think, I don't expect it. This way, if my opponent takes no time, I'm not affected.

In regards to getting emotional, it's important to get into the right state before playing, and to control your own emotions. I can't give out secrets for this one. Everyone is different. Just keep closer tabs on how you're feeling, and pinpoint what you need to change in order to make your game more consistent. Feedback is the most important step to mastery.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/