Putting Go on my resume...should I?

Solomon · #1

Lately, I've been on the hunt for a job (graduated last month) so of course one of the things I've had to do is update my resume. However, something I've been wondering about is whether I should put anything about my experience with Go on it. I feel like, without Go, my resume is pretty unoriginal so I decided to put something about it to make it a little unique. I'm trying to keep my resume to one page so space is very valuable, just I'm not sure how much space I should dedicate to it if putting my experience with Go is advisable in the first place.

What I'm wondering is whether anyone else here put anything about their experience with Go on their resume, how they did so, and if they would recommend it.

Here is my resume, feedback/critique (related to the Go bit or not) is welcome: http://ywchoe.com/SolomonChoe_Resume.pdf

oren · #2

I have Go on my resume, and it has helped get some conversations going before.

judicata · #3

I put it on mine, under some sort of Interests or Miscellaneous section. It depends on what jobs you're seeking, but generally less conversation during an interview is bad. It is usually best to get the interviewer to talk more (indirectly)*, but anything that can spark up a conversation is good.

*On a related note, it is usually better to focus on making interviewers feel good about themselves (rather than you).

Joaz Banbeck · #4

Maybe the problem is at my end, but I can't get anything at that link.

jts · #5

Unless you've received different advice (these things are field specific), I would put hours per week or total hours or some similar measure next to those so that prospective employers get a sense of how serious your time commitment was. But other than that, yes, I think Go brightens up your resume. I would rewrite "6th degree (dan)" as "Certified Expert Level 6" or something.

Oh, also - in many fields people are interested to know that people are multilingual. Presumably you speak Mandarin at a minimum, if you were working in Beijing? I think you can cut out your victories in Tacoma to make room for that.

judicata · #6

jts wrote:

Unless you've received different advice (these things are field specific), I would put hours per week or total hours or some similar measure next to those so that prospective employers get a sense of how serious your time commitment was.

I can't imagine an employer wanting that information. If I saw the number of hours on a resume, I would consider it bizarre. I absolutely would not include it unless you've heard that it would be expected in your particular field (I'd say by that particular employer). Note that I'm in the U.S., so cultural differences may vary. But if you aren't obligated to put it on your resume at all, I can't see how you'd be asked for the number of hours. Also, what number would you use? An average? Does that mean you'd need to update it if it changed? Does the time spent fluctuate certain times of year? I'd let it be assumed that it won't interfere with your work (unless you expect it to).

Bonobo · #7

judicata wrote:

[..]

I can't imagine an employer wanting that information. [..]

FWIW, in Germany it is quite usual to list hobbies, as well as voluntary work. I’ve learnt that good employers should be interested in their employees being healthy humans with more than just work-related interests.

“All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.” This is not a German proverb … who’d want a dull person among their other employees?

mitsun · #8

Go belongs on your resume, but not under "Employment History". Maybe a new section at the end called "Special Interests"? I would remove the bullet about tournament wins and the name of your Go teacher.

It might read better to change the first line under employment history to "University of Washington, Department of XXXXX, Research Group YYYYY, under Dr. ZZZZ". This gives the reader a better idea of what that job involved. If any publications came out of that work, it would be worth another bullet.

Definitely mention any languages in which you are proficient.

EdLee · #9

If your potential employer is a Chinese company, especially in mainland China, definitely mention Go/WeiQi,
and in particular your high-dan level. In the case of a Chinese company, I think there are only upsides
and I cannot think of any downside at all. I wonder about Japanese companies, too.

One question: For "Studied professionally in China under Liu Yuanbo, pro-certified by the Chinese Go Association," (my underline),
what does "studied professionally" mean? Do you mean you studied with pros?
It seems ambiguous? Another way to parse it is something like a "professional student" --
-- like you were paid ("professionally") to study "as a student of Go" -- maybe you were? As a Go teacher?
If there's a way to rephrase it and avoid that ambiguity, it's probably better.

Jedo · **#10**

I'm going to a career fair in Boston for japanese companies looking to hire bilinguals, and I'm putting being president of my college go club and having briefly managed the NY Go Center in my resume. At least in my situation though I know the people looking at it will know what go is.

Bartleby · **#11**

I don't see the downside to putting Go on your resume, especially since you are quite a good player. Back when I was job-hunting, I always listed chess on my resume, and it never seemed to hurt and a couple of times it may of helped me.

Where you put it on the resume is really a judgment call, but I would consider mitsun's idea of having a separate section for interests/hobbies, especially if you have any other things to add (e.g., if you play a sport or like to run/bike/hike, etc.)

daniel_the_smith · **#12**

Leave it on, shorten it, and put it in a misc or other section.

Good luck!

Kirby · **#13**

It isn't a black and white question: "is it good to put go on one's resume."

Rather, your resume is your chance to exercise rhetoric to give the recruiter a general image of who you are. It is about communicating, "I'm this kind of person, with this kind of experience."

So really, I think this also relates to what type of position you want to acquire with your resume.

The other items you have on your resume, excluding "Go Teacher" but including Kifu-Recognition Go Program, seem to say to me: I have experience in data collecting, analysis, and programming.

The "Go Teacher" section says to me: I don't do data analysis all the time. I'm also an expert on this other, unrelated, hobby of mine.

---

Summary: I feel that if your intention is to convey that you really dig data analysis, programming, and studies of that nature, I think that the "Go Teacher" bit takes up a lot of space and detracts from this a bit. If you replaced it with some other sort of technical experience, it would feel more consistent, and you could still mention go briefly.

---

In my own case, I have a very small one-liner in my resume that indicates "Selected Interests." I am mostly interested in programming jobs usually, so in this section, I put "algorithms, probability, the game of go, and combinatorics."

So I kind of sneak the topic in there in the small chance that someone is interested in go. Otherwise, I feel that it blends in with the rhetoric that says, "I like programming. I like math. I like solving problems."

---

You should go with your personal feeling on your resume, though, because you know yourself best. In my own case, though, I find it highly useful to think about the message that each part of the resume is conveying. Even the font you use says something about you - well, the you that you portay - to the person reading your resume.

jts · **#14**

judicata wrote:

jts wrote:

Unless you've received different advice (these things are field specific), I would put hours per week or total hours or some similar measure next to those so that prospective employers get a sense of how serious your time commitment was.

I can't imagine an employer wanting that information. If I saw the number of hours on a resume, I would consider it bizarre. I absolutely would not include it unless you've heard that it would be expected in your particular field (I'd say by that particular employer). Note that I'm in the U.S., so cultural differences may vary. But if you aren't obligated to put it on your resume at all, I can't see how you'd be asked for the number of hours. Also, what number would you use? An average? Does that mean you'd need to update it if it changed? Does the time spent fluctuate certain times of year? I'd let it be assumed that it won't interfere with your work (unless you expect it to).

I'm sure you're right. However, I was taught that if your resume includes part-time employment, you should indicate that rather than make the interviewer ask you, which risks creating a false impression. (In my own field it would be eccentric to list part time employment in an unrelated profession on your CV, so indicating how many hours you worked would be sort of beside the point.)

Dazz · **#15**

Kirby wrote:

So I kind of sneak the topic in there in the small chance that someone is interested in go. Otherwise, I feel that it blends in with the rhetoric that says, "I like programming. I like math. I like solving problems."---You should go with your personal feeling on your resume, though, because you know yourself best. In my own case, though, I find it highly useful to think about the message that each part of the resume is conveying. Even the font you use says something about you - well, the you that you portay - to the person reading your resume.

I agree with mitsun that Go shouldn't be under employment history, that is, unless you were being hired by an organization to do so. I think another section entitled Interests or Hobbies would be a good place for it.

I also agree with Kirby that you should think about what you want to communicate and convey about yourself - here is where it is important to know your audience. Kirby makes a good point about Go being congruent with the other parts of his resume, as it all speaks to someone who is interested in problems and solving them. Honestly, I think a lot of people look at Go as a niche, intellectual (read: geeky) game to be into and it could result in a negative opinion of you in certain fields. In North America, generally speaking, anti-intellectualism is alive and well among the mainstream population. However, it looks like the field you are in would be one that you don't need to worry about that. I guess I like people to get to know me first and then learn that I like Go as opposed to reading it on my resume before meeting me. Personally, I don't put hobbies or other interests on my resume.

Good luck with the job hunt.

Dazz · **#16**

mitsun wrote:

I would remove the bullet about tournament wins...

I disagree. I think the only part I would keep on your resume under the heading of Go is the tournament wins. It is an impressive accomplishment and I think would even catch the eye of someone unfamiliar with the game. A prospective employer may recognize it as an accomplishment and a sign of ambition.

Joaz Banbeck · **#17**

Sol,

I've owned a business with multiple employees for over 25 years now. I've interviewed more people than I can count.

My comments may seem brutal, but they are made in the hope that you will go out there with the best possible resume, and get the job you want.

Joaz

some hypothetical employer wrote:

Give me one name, not two. Yes, I can see that you are Korean, because you are sitting on the other side of the desk, but I probably don't care.
If I am curious about your Korean name, I'll ask. But otherwise, keep it simple for me. Use one name, preferably one that I can pronounce. Don't give me a chance to embarrass myself by trying to pronounce your name and doing it badly. I'll irrationally resent you for my failing.

Switch the employer heading and job heading. Make the job the more prominent of the two. My primary concern is what you did, not where you did it, because I am wondering what you can do for me.
Unless you worked for something really prestigious, like the Rand corp, don't feature it. Remember, to me, my company is the most important one in the world. I don't care about the others. I have a limited attention span. Don't bury me in details that I don't need.

Get rid of the Asian characters ( unless the job requires knowing another language. ) One of my biggest problems with employees – after those who drink/drug on the job, and those who steal – is those who cannot communicate. Don't leave me wondering if you think that writing in foreign characters is a way to communicate with me.

Skip the paragraph about go. I've never heard of it, and I have no idea how complex it is, so I won't be suitably impressed by your accomplishments. All this tells me is that you play games. Games are for kids. I already have employees who play games, and they do it on company time, and I hate that.

GPA?? Unless is it really high, get rid of it. If you mean 3.0 on a 4.0 scale, I'm not impressed. Lots of your competitors will have numbers better than that. Don't give me an easy way to compare you to them unless you will come out ahead in the comparison.

Kifu? WTF is a kifu? Again, show me that you can communicate. Either I have to admit that I don't know something - which makes me look bad, or I have to assume that you are a poor communicator. Both are bad for you.
Label it 'board game recognition program', and tell me that it 'Generates a digital game record from a scanned image.' If I care about board games like go or chess, I'll ask which game.

About the visual layout: remember that my eyes are NOT like a 20-something's eyes. I need more white space. And I resent the fact that you youngsters can see better than I, so when I have trouble reading your resume, I'll resent you for making me feel old. Use the room saved by eliminating the paragraph about teaching go, and spread it between the other sections.
Also, as I said, I want people who can communicate, and sometimes that will mean communicating in writing.

Lastly, keep in mind that I have at least twenty applicants for every position – maybe several hundred. I can't possibly consider them all in depth. Therefore, my first pass through the pile will be an elimination pass. I will want to get rid of 80% to 90% of them so I can get a manageable pile. I'll use simple criteria: this guy can't spell, that person had a low GPA, this guy will play games at work, etc.
So don't give me simple ways to make a trivial negative judgement about you.

Joaz Banbeck · **#18**

And before someones says: "Jeez, Joaz! Are you really that simple-minded and trite?", I should mention that the quote above is a composite generated from an amalgam of managers and owners in my and other's businesses over the years.

Phelan · **#19**

I haven't fully read the thread, so I'll just add my personal experience:
I got some curious questions about the game, and interesting conversation at interviews, but I don't feel it served to get me a job. In fact, the last job I got, there was some ribbing about me having that in the resume. My next resume will focus more on the community organising I do with Go, instead of Go as a hobby.

Lamp · **#20**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

And before someones says: "Jeez, Joaz! Are you really that simple-minded and trite?", I should mention that the quote above is a composite generated from an amalgam of managers and owners in my and other's businesses over the years.

going to agree with everything you said, based on my own experiences hiring / interviewing people. There are many things a person is proud of which an employer won't give a flippety flip about, and could end up hurting you.

Even though I agree with pretty much all of Joaz's points, in my own personal opinion, the most important two are the name (just put Solomon Choe), and getting rid of Chinese characters.

Ok, I lied. Three. DEFINITELY lose the GPA. Do not even think about putting your GPA on a resume unless it's 3.7 or higher. Probably even 3.8.

Putting Go on my resume...should I?

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