It is currently Thu May 08, 2025 2:10 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #1 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:38 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 285
Location: UK
Liked others: 42
Was liked: 52
What % of Go gameplay would you say can be attributed to the following skills:

1. Tactical reading ("I go there, he goes there, I go there, he goes there, I go there, then his group is clearly dead")

2. Knowledge ("Without having to predict any moves, I know that my J shape in the corner is alive")

3. Strategic judgment ("There are no immediate threats or opportunities. Where might be a good long-term place to have a stone?")

_________________
Regards,

Peter

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #2 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:55 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 761
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 204
Rank: the k-word
1. 99%
2. 1%
3. 0%

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #3 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:58 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
% of what? Time spent in a game? Hard to say, and also the distinctions between them are blurry. For example I can imagine the end result of some common joseki instantly teleported onto the board so that I can think about judging the position, whereas a weaker player might have to do the "I go there, he goes there etc. reading to get there.

P.S. When you read do you actually say "I go there, he goes there" in your head? You may find this vocalisation slows down your reading.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #4 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:37 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 323
Location: Geelong, Australia
Liked others: 199
Was liked: 76
Rank: OGS 9kyu
I no longer read by going "I go here, she goes there, I go here, she goes there, uh oh". That's too slow. All I hear in my head now is the clack of virtual stones on the board so it's more like "click, click, click, click, uh oh".

_________________
Poka King of the south east.


This post by TheBigH was liked by: ez4u
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #5 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:11 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1758
Liked others: 378
Was liked: 375
Rank: 4d
I don't know if anyone can be accurate enough in their introspection to answer that accurately. It's even harder to judge since I think a lot of the thoughts that go into my moves come in the first split second, and the rest is time spent figuring out things that don't come automatically to me.

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #6 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:12 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2659
Liked others: 310
Was liked: 631
Rank: kgs 6k
I think this is a bit hard to describe in terms of percentages.

But also, I think #3 is very biased towards a chess-ish conception of what strategy is. A good place to have a stone just is a place that creates (or parries) threats and opportunities. (And this often requires seeing the tactical ramifications of follow-up moves.) So I see why palapiku says 0%, but I think there are indeed differences between strategic and tactical skill in Go, which allows players with better strategy to slap around players with better local reading.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #7 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:21 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1758
Liked others: 378
Was liked: 375
Rank: 4d
For some reason I thought you originally asked "What percentage of time do you think about each?" The question you actually asked is slightly different.

I don't really know how to separate the first two, as it's really hard to separate what you "know" versus what you can just read easily. If we were to just divide it into the realm of strategy versus tactics, then I would have to say tactics are more important (SmoothOper might disagree with me ;)). I say this because it's really easy to find incredibly strong players who play games that lack even basic good strategy, but who excel at tactics (just log on to Tygem), but it's really hard to find anyone strong who you could say understands strategy very well but lacks tactical ability. I know a few people like that, but they're SDK at most.

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #8 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:36 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1848
Location: Bellevue, WA
Liked others: 90
Was liked: 837
Rank: AGA 5d
KGS: Capsule 4d
Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
PeterPeter wrote:
What % of Go gameplay would you say can be attributed to the following skills:

1. Tactical reading ("I go there, he goes there, I go there, he goes there, I go there, then his group is clearly dead")

2. Knowledge ("Without having to predict any moves, I know that my J shape in the corner is alive")

3. Strategic judgment ("There are no immediate threats or opportunities. Where might be a good long-term place to have a stone?")


1. 10%
2. 20%
3. 15%
4. 5% pleasure
5. 50% pain
6. 100% reason to remember the name


This post by Solomon was liked by 3 people: Akura, Prodigious, topazg
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #9 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:31 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 285
Location: UK
Liked others: 42
Was liked: 52
I think a strategic move is one that is at least 4 points away from any other stone. At that distance, the variations are too numerous or fuzzy to read accurately.

_________________
Regards,

Peter

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Breakdown of Go gameplay
Post #10 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:24 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
PeterPeter wrote:
I think a strategic move is one that is at least 4 points away from any other stone. At that distance, the variations are too numerous or fuzzy to read accurately.


That's not what I'd call strategic judgement. You might not be able to read them, but stronger players can. Global reading is certainly more open-ended than local reading, and can be skipped in favour of experience, intuition etc. when short of time, but it's certainly doable, and is necessary to play the strongest moves.

Maybe if you read my extensive Malkovich comments you could decide for yourself how my thoughts are distributed between those categories.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group