It is currently Thu May 01, 2025 8:31 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ? about reading and visualization
Post #21 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:48 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 447
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 68
Rank: kgs 5kyu
KGS: Unusedname
[quote="daal" when reading, what's important is that we know how many liberties each group has and whether it leaves behind cutting points etc. [/quote]

This is where I have trouble.
I can focus on one group and know how many liberties it has. But when there are multiples I have to reread the sequence multiple times and focus on each group to recount the amount of liberties/cutting points etc.

And when it comes to corner problems.... Sacrifice. I did not misread I merely added more stones to sacrifice so I could get outside moves. :blackeye:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ? about reading and visualization
Post #22 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:35 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2264
Liked others: 1180
Was liked: 553
yeah, I totally have problems visualizing as I try to read.

my biggest problems are shortage of liberties, snapbacks and throw-ins. Put all those together and I really have trouble.

For example, this problem should be easy, but I just can't see it (I see it now that I've looked at the answer, but months later, I'll forget again)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . X . , . . .
$$ | . . X X . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . X O O O O X X . . .
$$ | . X O X . . X O X . . .
$$ | . X O O X . O O X . X .
$$ | . X . . O . O X . . . .
$$ +-------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ? about reading and visualization
Post #23 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:48 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 706
Liked others: 252
Was liked: 251
GD Posts: 846
xed_over wrote:
my biggest problems are shortage of liberties...


In a purile sense, shortage of liberties is the entirety of go1, so yeah, that's a problem.

(Also, me too. In your example problem, I see the main line pretty much instantly, but verifying that nothing else works runs into some illusions. :))

[1] For those who don't immediately catch why I say that...

Consider stone scoring or no pass go with prisoner return. In those rulesets, one keeps playing stones until it is not possible to do so because of...what? Self-Atari. I.e., shortage of liberties. So in a very real sense, one can think about go as not being about having the most territory, but having enough liberties to have the right to keep putting stones on the board so that you don't run short before your opponent does and don't lose too many stones in captures during the game due to what? ... shortage of liberties. :)


Last edited by snorri on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ? about reading and visualization
Post #24 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:16 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2508
Liked others: 1304
Was liked: 1128
xed_over wrote:
yeah, I totally have problems visualizing as I try to read.

my biggest problems are shortage of liberties, snapbacks and throw-ins. Put all those together and I really have trouble.

For example, this problem should be easy, but I just can't see it (I see it now that I've looked at the answer, but months later, I'll forget again)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . X . , . . .
$$ | . . X X . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . X O O O O X X . . .
$$ | . X O X . . X O X . . .
$$ | . X O O X . O O X . X .
$$ | . X . . O . O X . . . .
$$ +-------------------------[/go]

This problem points to another essential difficulty of reading: every stone played affects the liberties of each group it touches, so you need to simultaneously keep track of several changing statuses. Looking at the problem on the computer, I found it too difficult to read out. After laying the problem out on a board, and placing my first idea, I realized (what I think to be) the answer at once.
In my mind, I had overlooked the fact that the first stone put not one, but two groups in atari. :roll: It's hard to imagine someone not seeing this, but my explanation is that I was preoccupied with the effect on the one group, and simply allowed myself to feel overwhelmed. Seeing does make knowing easier.

_________________
Patience, grasshopper.


This post by daal was liked by: xed_over
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ? about reading and visualization
Post #25 Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:02 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 314
Location: Germany
Liked others: 10
Was liked: 128
Rank: KGS 4k
Here's one I once had very big problems visualizing. It contains the same pattern as xed_over's tsumego (not the throw-in part, though).

Even knowing the solution it's still hard to visualize, imho.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . O O O X . . .
$$ | . X X X O X . X . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . . ,
$$ | . . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . X . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: ? about reading and visualization
Post #26 Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:21 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2264
Liked others: 1180
Was liked: 553
leichtloeslich wrote:
Here's one I once had very big problems visualizing. It contains the same pattern as xed_over's tsumego (not the throw-in part, though).

Even knowing the solution it's still hard to visualize, imho.

Yeah, I couldn't do it without putting it on a board and trying out a few different variations.

But I also suffer from the kyu-disease (not wanting any of my stones to be captured/sacrificed), which also greatly hinders visualization.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 9@1
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . 3 8 5 7 . X . . .
$$ | 4 6 1 O O O X . . .
$$ | 2 X X X O X . X . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . . ,
$$ | . . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . X . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 9@1
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . 3 8 5 7 . X . . .
$$ | 4 2 1 O O O X . . .
$$ | 6 X X X O X . X . .
$$ | O O O O X . X . . ,
$$ | . . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . X . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


cool problem (assuming I even got it right)

edit: found 2nd solution

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group