Point taken, Araban and Mef.
It's just when I look at SGF files, I often wonder why the heck they moved where they moved.
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| Author: | Inkwolf [ Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
Is there anywhere you can download pro/high-level game records with move-by-move comments/analysis/explanation for lower-level players? |
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| Author: | Solomon [ Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
A pro game commentated with move-by-move explanation suitable for beginners? I don't think I've seen such a thing, because that would just be overwhelming. You're better off going through a pro game with someone stronger, and asking questions you may have about particular moves that intrigue you. |
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| Author: | xed_over [ Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
you might want to try The Teaching Ladder, or our own Malkovich games |
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| Author: | Inkwolf [ Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
xed_over wrote: you might want to try The Teaching Ladder, or our own Malkovich games The Teaching Ladder looks like just what I need. Close enough, anyway. Thanks! |
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| Author: | Mef [ Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
Araban wrote: A pro game commentated with move-by-move explanation suitable for beginners? I don't think I've seen such a thing, because that would just be overwhelming. You're better off going through a pro game with someone stronger, and asking questions you may have about particular moves that intrigue you. Indeed, I feel like such a file for most professional games would either be to light a treatment and very vague ("Black plays here to strengthen his group and put pressure on white's group"), or would require so much detail ("This move preforms functions A, B, and C <variations demonstrating why other alteratives aren't as effective> and also stops white from getting X <more variations showing why white wants X, how white would be able to get X with other moves, why white can't play X now> and performs same function as Q <more variations> while still leaving the option of Z <etc>....and of course each of those explanations would probably require further explanations as to why each of those things was or wasn't desirable in the first place....it could get very big very fast... Though, there are some games that it might be doable for...I believe gobase used to keep a collection of especially straightforward games (They called it "Crystal Clear" or some such thing?). Perhaps with the right game it might be doable...but as far as looking at several games with commentary like that, it would probably be easier / maybe more effective to just look at commented games of players a few stones stronger. |
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| Author: | Inkwolf [ Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
Point taken, Araban and Mef. It's just when I look at SGF files, I often wonder why the heck they moved where they moved. |
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| Author: | John Fairbairn [ Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
It's interesting how a request on behalf of "lower-level players" was transmogrified instantly into "beginners", yet professionals would regard anyone on this forum as a lower-level player. It reminds me of the constant harping by teachers to pupils about to take exams: read the question carefully. However, the question does lack some clarity. Is the questioner seeking only instant improvement in playing strength, or is he looking for a commentary that can help him enjoy the game more as an amateur. Switching to baseball for a moment, does he want Little League coaching or does he want to watch a major league game in the company of Jon Miller and Joe Morgan (or Joe Buck and Tim McCarver - or whichever side of the divide you are on - I like all of them)? If the latter is what you want, and you are prepared to look beyond downloads, the "From the GoGoD Archives" series of books by Slate & Shell will give you ample material. Games there are covered much, much more extensively than elsewhere, with comments (by pros) on very many more moves than is usual. They even discuss many cases where pros disagreed among themselves, or were just plain wrong. But apart from that, you get the background, the colour, the psychological insights. You provide the peanuts and crackerjack, and the brew - "raising this one for you, Harry". We provide the game, the gems, the replays and the drama of the occasion. |
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| Author: | Solomon [ Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
John Fairbairn wrote: It's interesting how a request on behalf of "lower-level players" was transmogrified instantly into "beginners", yet professionals would regard anyone on this forum as a lower-level player. It's in the title.
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| Author: | John Fairbairn [ Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
Touché. But I think my points still apply. |
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| Author: | Mef [ Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
John Fairbairn wrote: It's interesting how a request on behalf of "lower-level players" was transmogrified instantly into "beginners", yet professionals would regard anyone on this forum as a lower-level player. It reminds me of the constant harping by teachers to pupils about to take exams: read the question carefully. However, the question does lack some clarity. Is the questioner seeking only instant improvement in playing strength, or is he looking for a commentary that can help him enjoy the game more as an amateur. This is true, I was (perhaps mistakenly) assuming they meant as a detailed instructional reference...if it is for entertainment purposes / color commentary it would be doable. Providing just the right commentary to make a game entertaining / more enjoyable while still not going over the audiences head is truly an art though. (= |
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| Author: | TMark [ Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
I know from experience that JF never reads the header of emails or newsgroup postings. He dives head-first into the text and can only be extracted with a winch.  Best wishes. |
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| Author: | xed_over [ Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
Inkwolf wrote: It's just when I look at SGF files, I often wonder why the heck they moved where they moved. feel free to post a game you're studying and confused about (though you may need to strip most of the comments for copyright purposes), and we'll be glad to help study and discuss it with you here. |
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| Author: | onorarono [ Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
I've watched some videos at gocommentary.com and there's a series called The Greatest Games Ever Played, though after reading the replies I guess for a beginner, myself included of course, it is more for entertainment and appreciation for some famous games than in depth studying. |
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| Author: | Chew Terr [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
I personally recommend reading through some Malkovich games. They can be both entertaining and (somewhat less) educational, so they're pretty decent fodder. Additionally, they're free, and you can conveniently ask questions to better understand things. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
If someone were to attempt this, who would be the best pros to use? Who has a predictably 'simple' or 'fundamental' style? |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
Otake was known for consistently making good shape. It will still come down to the individual games. |
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
If you're willing to spend some money, there are many good books with commentaries of professional games: http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoBooks#toc28 |
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| Author: | oren [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
From that list... http://senseis.xmp.net/?TheGoConsultants This has the best commented single game I've ever read. I still need to get Meijin's Retirement Game though. |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
The 1971 Honinbo Tournament is a very good book I read and could understand at around 10-8k. You might want to look into it as well, if you're willing to spend money. |
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| Author: | Inkwolf [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SGF files with commentation for beginners? |
I've spent more than I can afford on Go stuff lately already, but I will bear those in mind for when my bills are caught up again, and look at those Malkovich games meanwhile. Thanks! |
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