Simply put, play games against people and learn. That's the best way.
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| Putting the PIeces Together http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4347 |
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| Author: | tammycravit [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Putting the PIeces Together |
I freely confess I am a relative newcomer to Go - that is, I tried to play by intuition and guesswork a few years ago, but am now starting over at actually learning what the heck I'm doing! At this point - having been studying and playing games against my iPad for several weeks (but not yet having had the courage to play against people, which is a whole other problem) - I'm finding some frustration in knowing how to put together all the pieces of what I'm learning. I do understand how liberties work, and why stones get captured. I understand conceptually how territory works, how stones are alive or dead, why eyes are important, and so forth. I understand that stones exert influence over the areas around them, though I confess that exactly how that works is still somewhat of a mystery to me. I have vague notions of what sente, gote, ko, etc. mean, though in the details I'm somewhat lost. I know what a ladder and a net are, and have even managed to use them from time to time. I've done some life and death problems in SmartGo on my iPad, and get the "right answer" more often than not. So, I have all these bits of knowledge, but I really struggle with how they all fit together in the context of a game. As a result, my games quickly turn into frenzied responses to moves made by the computer whose strategic import I don't understand. I have a really hard time stepping back and thinking strategically about what I'm doing - moving the conflict from tactical to strategic rarely happens for me except by accident. Is there something else I can/should be doing to help put these pieces together? Or is there just a critical body of knowledge that I haven't yet fully attained, after which the big picture will start to make sense? I'm trying to keep reading, keep studying, and keep playing, but it's a really frustrating feeling to know that my body of knowledge is growing but to still feel like I'm missing the big picture. |
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| Author: | oren [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
Simply put, play games against people and learn. That's the best way.
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| Author: | xed_over [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
yep. Oren summed it up best, I think. Playing against real people, they can help quickly identify what your current stumblingblocks might be and help you overcome them more quickly (or quicker). |
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| Author: | lightvector [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
Play lots of games with people. Review your games, both on your own and with stronger players. Ask questions about specific situations you don't understand. And make sure to have fun. 
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
If there's someone else you can convince to try and play, do that . Otherwise, I say just keep playing. There's a saying that says "Play your first 100 games as quickly as you can." This refers not to the speed at which you play, or the exact number of games, but to the simple fact that the best way to learn when you're new is to just play a lot and see patterns in certain shapes which you can memorize. For instance, recognizing that black can capture the white stone in the diagram below:Also, be sure to check out Sensei's Library, if you haven't already. There's some good information there. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
tammycravit wrote: I'm missing the big picture. Yes, and it's because the picture is immensely huge. Studying Go in many ways is like learning a new language (say, Chinese, if you have had no experience with any foreign languages before), or learning the piano (again, if you have zero previous exposure to any musical instrument), or starting something like ballet that demands a lot of discipline and hard work -- it is a very long journey, with lots of frustration, pain, and huge brick walls, but also the excitement and joy from discoveries and growth. If you have substantial experience with other, similar, endeavors, then you already know the answers to some of your questions. In any case, your first project is finish 100 games as quickly as you can. (9x9, 13x13, 19x19, people and bots are all OK, but the smaller boards can save you a lot of time at this stage.) |
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
At a beginner level, don't try to bog yourself down with too many different areas of learning. You're liable to burn yourself out quickly. Cho Chikun would recommend that you concentrate on Life and Death problems as the fundamental of learning go. You might also put tesuji problems as the second most fundamental part of learning go. The idea is to build up your reading skills first before you start venturing into strategic considerations. Perhaps try doing the entrance level pack at gochild. Should be very helpful to your initial understanding of the game. |
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| Author: | Chew Terr [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
A lot of people have said play games, and I agree entirely. To clarify a bit, when folks have said 'review your own games', it can be particularly useful to start at the end. See where you lost a ton of stones, where your opponent made a ton of territory, or where your territory got reduced a lot. Try to figure out why it didn't work well. See if there are any stones that really ended up not being useful, that sort of thing. Ideally try to find 2-3 things in a game, which should be pretty easy as you're just starting. You can also scroll through an sgf file fast, and get an idea of how the game went from that. If you zoom through, and see 'Man, this whole section of the game, I kept having to defend this weak group', then maybe you need to try to defend your groups a bit earlier, or get them a bit further into the middle. That sort of thing. And getting at least a game or two reviewed once in a while can help. That'll help to verify your self-review, and give some insight you may have missed. Additionally, playing a friendly teaching game with a stronger (or even equal!) player with no handicap can be great. That way, you can casually discuss ideas as you play, to gauge where you're at and what needs work. Good luck! |
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| Author: | tammycravit [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
Thank you, all, for the suggestions! I've been feeling rather much like I was thrashing around, and it's helpful to have a bit better sense of direction. Dusk Eagle, thanks for the pointer to SL - I've been looking at that site for a couple of weeks, but even with the "resources for beginners" page, the site seems to multiply my sense of overwhelm more than it helps at this point. I guess I also have to bite the bullet and play some games against people before too long, but I think I'll get the rest of the way to my "first 100 games" before I do that. |
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| Author: | judicata [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
tammycravit wrote: I guess I also have to bite the bullet and play some games against people before too long, but I think I'll get the rest of the way to my "first 100 games" before I do that. Nah--just take the plunge. After your first few games, you won't be so anxious about it. |
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| Author: | oren [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
tammycravit wrote: I guess I also have to bite the bullet and play some games against people before too long, but I think I'll get the rest of the way to my "first 100 games" before I do that. The first time you play a person is the start of that 100 games. |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
I wouldn't go as far as oren, but I do think you can start playing humans right off the bat if you want. Still, I understand why you may be hesitant to do so, as I was hesitant to play humans online when I first started playing, and I stuck to playing GNUGo and my family for the first little while. Not exactly related to the above paragraph, but let me quote Catalin Taranu, a Romanian who started Go at the age of 16 yet managed to become a professional in the Nihon-Kiin (Japanese Go Association). In this interview, he says: Catalin Taranu wrote: In April of 1989 I played my first game of go. I don't exactly know why, but I remember that period well. The first two months were agony. Although I thought I understood the rules and the game certainly captivated me, I really didn't know what exactly to do. I gave it a shot and hoped I'd become a little better fast. I think this is the only weakness of go, that starting period in which beginners get the rules explained but can't really do anything with them at all. The two months it took me to get a grasp of what really was the general idea, are no exception. Only people slightly obsessed with the game will come out on the other end of this. In that respect chess players are a lot better off, there may be more rules but the goal and the way of playing become clear much sooner than with go. With a bit of effort you can make it through this period, and then you really begin to see the depth of Go .
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| Author: | Mr. Mormon [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Putting the PIeces Together |
I would even say that the difference between knowing the rules and knowing a good move is just more evidence for how deep Go is. Go isn't mystic or incomprehensible. It is very special. Remember that and don't be afraid, but excited to take the plunge. |
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