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| How could I have recognized this? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5165 |
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| Author: | Xezlec [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How could I have recognized this? |
Hello! This is my first post. I'm a total beginner. I've always wanted to be somewhat competent at a board game. I thought Go would be a good one to try. But I keep losing to my phone, humiliatingly enough. Here's an example of my latest game against it: I was all proud of myself for using a series of forcing moves to get the board into this position and still have sente, and I moved at a and then my triangle-marked group got killed to death hard. I couldn't understand how that happened, because I thought I was doing good. I spent a long time playing out variations against the phone, and the phone managed to kill my group every time. Finally, after more time spent at it than makes any sense, I found move b. This move wins the game. But how could I have ever seen that that is such a great move without playing variations for half an hour? It doesn't look particularly special to me compared to all the other moves. And how could I have seen how dangerous this position really was for me? I had thought I was in great shape. |
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| Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
Hi Xezlec, experience comes at a point  the 1-2 point (or 2-1? I always get it wrong  ) is a special point, and usually for this kind of shapes is like an "eye creator". To be more effective at spotting this kind of things, experience is a must! After a while you tend to recognize which shapes can get two eyes and which only get one (see here: http://senseis.xmp.net/?nakade). Slowly you'll get your hang of what makes you live and what not, and this will make you improve steadily. Don't despair!
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| Author: | Xezlec [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
Ohhh! I had read the thing about 6 in the corner and its critical point before but I wasn't thinking about it like that. Now I can see what you mean: that's the shape it was going to end up as, so I should have been planning ahead to that. Thanks! |
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| Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
Thanks for coming to ask! If you start recognizing which shape you end up, and how this shape lives or dies you'll improve a lot! (and I've always found the 6 space eye as one of the hardest, by the way!) |
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| Author: | xed_over [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
look up Vital Point: http://senseis.xmp.net/?VitalPoint recognizing the vital point comes with lots of practice and recognizing common shapes. Practice lots of tsumego (life and death) |
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| Author: | jts [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
Xezlec wrote: Ohhh! I had read the thing about 6 in the corner and its critical point before but I wasn't thinking about it like that. Now I can see what you mean: that's the shape it was going to end up as, so I should have been planning ahead to that. Thanks! I'm curious, what resistance did white find that made A fail? (I can see one or two lines that might be tricky for black, but I would play A myself.) |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
Well, take solace in this: I want to play a as well. I think it should actually kill. |
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| Author: | tj86430 [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
I too have trouble seeing why a would lose. |
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| Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
Looking very quickly at it, doesn't it end in seki or bent four? |
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| Author: | xed_over [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
RBerenguel wrote: Looking very quickly at it, doesn't it end in seki or bent four? only if the 4 white stones at b4 live |
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| Author: | jts [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
RBerenguel wrote: Looking very quickly at it, doesn't it end in seki or bent four? B5 is deader than chris hitchens |
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| Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
Too quickly  I'm watching soccer on TV, as disclaimer
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| Author: | speedchase [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
What is the sequnce for white to kill after a? |
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| Author: | Xezlec [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
jts wrote: I'm curious, what resistance did white find that made A fail? (I can see one or two lines that might be tricky for black, but I would play A myself.) Darn it, I don't remember. I may have just made a silly mistake and then backtracked right away without looking closely enough. I know at least one of the ways I tried it, white played at the point immediately to the right of b. This move made it really hard for me to do anything, because he could connect to the group at the top if I didn't block that. That might not have been the time I started out by playing at a though. Sorry. |
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| Author: | Xezlec [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
OK, I think this is what happened. |
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| Author: | speedchase [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
 @ white 10?
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| Author: | Numsgil [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
If it's any consolation, your phone is probably mid to high SDK on 9x9. It was many many months, maybe even a year, of intensive study before I could beat my phone on an even game on a 9x9 board. If you play online on KGS (or another server) and find other DDKs to play against it won't be quite as frustrating. As to getting better: it's just drilling go problems over and over and over and over and over and over... |
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| Author: | jts [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
Xezlec wrote: jts wrote: I'm curious, what resistance did white find that made A fail? (I can see one or two lines that might be tricky for black, but I would play A myself.) Darn it, I don't remember. I may have just made a silly mistake and then backtracked right away without looking closely enough. I know at least one of the ways I tried it, white played at the point immediately to the right of b. This move made it really hard for me to do anything, because he could connect to the group at the top if I didn't block that. That might not have been the time I started out by playing at a though. Sorry. Ah, I can see how that might have put you in a pickle. You don't actually need the points in the corner to win, though... Indeed, if you insist on keeping them, I'm not sure if you can win. B6, b8, a5, c9, a3, and you win. Otoh, I think that after a8, b9, c9 (trying to keep the corner), b6, white captures. |
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| Author: | Xezlec [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
jts wrote: You don't actually need the points in the corner to win, though... Indeed, if you insist on keeping them, I'm not sure if you can win. B6, b8, a5, c9, a3, and you win. Otoh, I think that after a8, b9, c9 (trying to keep the corner), b6, white captures. Huh. I was able to keep the top-left corner and win with that move at b I mentioned originally. Maybe the phone didn't play optimally (I'm not playing it at its maximum difficulty level). But now that you mention it, that may be more points than I actually needed. I didn't actually count them at the time. Just sort of assumed I didn't have enough, since I usually don't.
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How could I have recognized this? |
 is the problem. I don't think b works. But cheer up. This is a problem for a single digit kyu player. It's not something I'd want to see in a fast game. This may be the best B can do. |
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