Life In 19x19 :: Proper way to improve your game?

but I'm not sure about where should I focus my attention exactly.

Almost everyone advice me to do tsumego over and over but at this moment I don't find myself in many situations like the ones I solve on the problems. In KGS, playing against people of 12-15 kyu I usually lose my games because I don't seem to be able to stop invasions of my territory.

Hello everyone,

I'm a beginner who started playing Go a bit more than two weeks ago and I have been playing over and over during these days (I'm unemployed, so it became a sort of addiction). Though at the local club I joined offer me a lot of help and I think I'm not doing bad, I really want to become stronger, but it seems that I have found a wall that I cannot breach.

I'm looking for a way to go through that wall and keep becoming stronger, but I'm not sure about where should I focus my attention exactly. Almost everyone advice me to do tsumego over and over but at this moment I don't find myself in many situations like the ones I solve on the problems. In KGS, playing against people of 12-15 kyu I usually lose my games because I don't seem to be able to stop invasions of my territory.

What do you think, besides the omnipresent tsumego, that I should study or learn to be able to go further?

Thank you!

Dan :tmbup:

So, actually, by doing Tsumegos you will learn how to deal with invasions.

@Uberdude: You're very right, though I have experienced a few of some... call them "aha!" moments in these two weeks that improved my strength dramatically (for a beginner). Like having a revelation or something? It's hard to explain, but probably I'm looking for one of those "aha!" moments again. I want to play at least at a decent level, single digit kyu maybe? But as I said, you're right, patience is a virtue.

"Aha" moments will get rarer with time.

@Amelia: Yeah... I feel those moments will be less and less with time, but I'm still in search for them! You're supposed to be around my strength as well, right? When was your last "revelation" if I may ask? I hope you're advancing at a good pace, that would give me hopes for the future

Amelia wrote:

"Aha" moments will get rarer with time.

If only "uh-oh" moments did, too.

Actually, "uh-oh" moments can be parents of "aha" moments.

I don't know how to post games here but... white is dead at this point playing black at S16. No escape possible. Tsumego problem! In fact, until movement 210 it's a dead group. I didn't notice about it just after white closed, then I was like "oh..." :oops:

Author:	Nyine [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:46 am ]
Post subject:	Proper way to improve your game?
Hello everyone, I'm a beginner who started playing Go a bit more than two weeks ago and I have been playing over and over during these days (I'm unemployed, so it became a sort of addiction). Though at the local club I joined offer me a lot of help and I think I'm not doing bad, I really want to become stronger, but it seems that I have found a wall that I cannot breach. I'm looking for a way to go through that wall and keep becoming stronger, but I'm not sure about where should I focus my attention exactly. Almost everyone advice me to do tsumego over and over but at this moment I don't find myself in many situations like the ones I solve on the problems. In KGS, playing against people of 12-15 kyu I usually lose my games because I don't seem to be able to stop invasions of my territory. What do you think, besides the omnipresent tsumego, that I should study or learn to be able to go further? Thank you! Dan

Author:	Amelia [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Try to get your games reviewed by stronger players. It is the most helpful thing especially at the start because you learn based on the situations that come up in your games, and that is something you can more relate to, as opposed to abstract discussions / exercises from books. Post a game here and we will try and help you. On how to post game files: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=833

Author:	xed_over [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Nyine wrote: but I'm not sure about where should I focus my attention exactly. play lots of games.

Author:	Uberdude [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
How can you be stuck at a wall if you've only been playing 2 weeks! Some people get stuck for decades. Just keep on playing, I'm sure you'll keep improving.

Author:	SoDesuNe [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Nyine wrote: Almost everyone advice me to do tsumego over and over but at this moment I don't find myself in many situations like the ones I solve on the problems. In KGS, playing against people of 12-15 kyu I usually lose my games because I don't seem to be able to stop invasions of my territory. Tsumego situations from books will rarely come up in your own games (or in anyone's games), but that isn't the point in the first place. The point is - in my opinion - to learn something about eye-shape. How to reduce your opponent's eye-shape and how to make eye-shape for your own groups (and subsequently knowing if a group has enough room to even make two eyes without playing further moves). Of course Tsumegos will only gradually teach you the various forms of eye-shape building and reducing tactics (mostly starting from the second line) but generally that is all there is. So, actually, by doing Tsumegos you will learn how to deal with invasions. If they have enough room to live (meaning you most likely had to defend beforehand) or if your opponent just wastes stones because there is not enough space to make two eyes with correct play. I once attended a group class by a three pros and one of them showed us that there is no way to live under a solid string of stones on the fourth line. But you have to know how. When we - in return - tried to kill such group (I was a shaky 7-kyu on KGS back then), it lived in some cases by the magic of the pro ; )

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

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Author:	Bill Spight [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Nyine wrote: Hello everyone, I'm a beginner who started playing Go a bit more than two weeks ago and I have been playing over and over during these days (I'm unemployed, so it became a sort of addiction). Though at the local club I joined offer me a lot of help and I think I'm not doing bad, I really want to become stronger, but it seems that I have found a wall that I cannot breach. I'm looking for a way to go through that wall and keep becoming stronger, but I'm not sure about where should I focus my attention exactly. Almost everyone advice me to do tsumego over and over but at this moment I don't find myself in many situations like the ones I solve on the problems. In KGS, playing against people of 12-15 kyu I usually lose my games because I don't seem to be able to stop invasions of my territory. What do you think, besides the omnipresent tsumego, that I should study or learn to be able to go further? Thank you! Dan If you just started go a couple of weeks ago, you have not have not found a wall that you cannot breach, or any obstacle that you cannot overcome. You will make incredible advancement in your first year of play. The wall is in your mind. It is a mirage. I would advise you, during your first year, not to think about obstacles or how good or bad you are. Have fun! Does a child worry about the subjunctive mood? The future perfect tense? Go ahead and play online. Play teaching games. Play unrated. Play as a guest. If you do get a rating, open a new account. For some people ratings can be stepping stones, but for you they would probably be stumbling blocks. Forget yourself and enjoy the game. Welcome to go.

Author:	Amelia [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
SoDesuNe wrote: So, actually, by doing Tsumegos you will learn how to deal with invasions. Yeah, he will. At some point. But that's long term stuff. If he's been playing for two weeks, then there's probably still room for drastic improvement just by some basic advice without studying for months. I know I gained two stones just by understanding I didn't have to kill every single invasion coming at me to win the game. It would be easier to know what to advise after looking at a game. By the way, Nyine, what board size do you play? 9x9, 13x13, 19x19? Because if you feel stuck on 9x9, I'd just recommend to move on to a bigger board size.

Author:	Nyine [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Woah, thank you for the replies guys, they're very much appreciated! @Amelia: I'd love to post some of my games here but the coding to do so looks so... strange to me. I'll eventually give a try thought, just to prove what I mean by "invasions" By the way, I play always on 19x19, the 9x9 board looks tiny for me and the 13x13 doesn't let me be... creative? So it's always 19x19! @xed_over: I play tons and tons of games! When I'm not in KGS (most of the time) I'm playing at the club. But yeah, nothing like playing to improve I suppose @Uberdude: You're very right, though I have experienced a few of some... call them "aha!" moments in these two weeks that improved my strength dramatically (for a beginner). Like having a revelation or something? It's hard to explain, but probably I'm looking for one of those "aha!" moments again. I want to play at least at a decent level, single digit kyu maybe? But as I said, you're right, patience is a virtue. @SoDesuNe: Sir, you gave me a totally new perspective on studying tsumego and I see clearly now why they advice them so much. Thanks a lot for your comment! @Bill Spight: You hit the nail with your comment! I guess ranks are something that are in all new players at the beginning, and I'm not better than any other on that point. For me climbing up the ladder is a way to prove to myself how good or bad I am, and every rated game becomes a death of life battle to keep my rank/advance a rank. I don't play relaxed as I should and I'll certainly take your advice of enjoy more the game itself that the challenge that it proves to be on par with better players. And thank you for your welcome!

Author:	Amelia [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Nyine wrote: @Uberdude: You're very right, though I have experienced a few of some... call them "aha!" moments in these two weeks that improved my strength dramatically (for a beginner). Like having a revelation or something? It's hard to explain, but probably I'm looking for one of those "aha!" moments again. I want to play at least at a decent level, single digit kyu maybe? But as I said, you're right, patience is a virtue. "Aha" moments will get rarer with time. The stronger you get, the tougher it is to climb up. But they will still be there and you will enjoy them even more.

Author:	Uberdude [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
And if you ever need a quick fix a-ha moment there's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914

Author:	gowan [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Play lots of games for fun but also pay attention to what happens.

Author:	jts [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
"I never come across tsumego situations in my games" is sort of akin to "but outside of the weight room, I never find large dumbbells to lift !" For now, you're building a mental muscle. The main thing is that you be able to do heavy mental lifting - it doesn't matter if what you want to lift in your games is the same size or shape, it's the weight that matters. (Well-constructed tsumego are very often variations on certain kinds of invasions and so on that can come up frequently in games. Sometimes they are common enough to have names and chapters in books. But it will take a while to see that.)

Author:	palapiku [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Go is actually all about creating tsumego for the opponent to solve. So if you can't find any, perhaps your opponent isn't working hard enough. But that will change dramatically as your rank improves...

Author:	Nyine [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
@Amelia: Yeah... I feel those moments will be less and less with time, but I'm still in search for them! You're supposed to be around my strength as well, right? When was your last "revelation" if I may ask? I hope you're advancing at a good pace, that would give me hopes for the future @Uberdude: Eh... not that kind of aha moment as I said on KGS chat, but it was a nice try @Gowan: It's strange, lately I notice that I'm paying less attention to some moves in my games that lead to huge disasters. Maybe I'm concentrating or playing so much that I'm losing my edge? I'm not sure if go is like physical exercise, where is healthy to take small breaks at time, or on the contrary not keeping a fixed "training schedule" makes you weaker. What do you think? @jts: That's another great example to encourage me to do more tsumego. These days I'm not doing so many of them and I seem to be a bit off while playing, could that be the reason? @Palapiku: Yeah... my opponents don't use to get me in those situations, only at some times and I "usually" answer correctly (though not always, sometimes I try to fight where I shouldn't).

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Author:	Bill Spight [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Amelia wrote: "Aha" moments will get rarer with time. If only "uh-oh" moments did, too. Actually, "uh-oh" moments can be parents of "aha" moments.

Author:	Nyine [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
I got so many of those "uh-oh" moments I lost count of them The worst of them is when a whole wall of 20+ stones gets completely surrounded and killed. At those moments I think if I should play something like checkers instead Go

Author:	Amelia [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Nyine wrote: @Amelia: Yeah... I feel those moments will be less and less with time, but I'm still in search for them! You're supposed to be around my strength as well, right? When was your last "revelation" if I may ask? I hope you're advancing at a good pace, that would give me hopes for the future That's the wrong question, as I stopped playing for over a year and started again only a week ago! So right now no aha moments, more like trying to get my ~~bad~~ good habits back. But even before I didn't get to 16k in two weeks, it took much longer than that. I also didn't play quite as much as you do. I have seen people who played a lot get much stronger than that quite fast though, up to the SDK levels. If you see me around on KGS or Kaya, feel free to ask for a game! Bill Spight wrote: Amelia wrote: "Aha" moments will get rarer with time. If only "uh-oh" moments did, too. Actually, "uh-oh" moments can be parents of "aha" moments. So true

Author:	yoyoma [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
I just opened your most recent loss on KGS. What is the status of White's upper right corner? Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$ Position at move 69 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . O X . X X O O O . \| $$ \| . X O . O . . . . O . O X . . X O . . \| $$ \| . . X O . . O . . , . O X O X X O . . \| $$ \| . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . O X X X X . X . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . O \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . O . . . O . . . . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	Nyine [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
I don't know how to post games here but... white is dead at this point playing black at S16. No escape possible. Tsumego problem! In fact, until movement 210 it's a dead group. I didn't notice about it just after white closed, then I was like "oh..."

Author:	skydyr [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Proper way to improve your game?
Nyine wrote: I don't know how to post games here but... white is dead at this point playing black at S16. No escape possible. Tsumego problem! In fact, until movement 210 it's a dead group. I didn't notice about it just after white closed, then I was like "oh..." Usually this is called unsettled, because black can kill if he plays there first, but white can live as well by playing first. Dead is when white moves first and still can't live, given alternating play (though even then stones can come back to life through trades and kos).