Hello everyone, some time ago I began taking lessons from a stronger player (in order to improve). I wanted to share my experience here with anyone interested in it.

I am 28 years old. I started go maybe 9 years ago, while still in university. I improved relatively quickly up to 6 kyu, but then got stuck there. I was a bit stronger in handi games, maybe 5 kyu, but not in normal games. In hindsight, I think my way of studying was not optimal. I did focus a bit too much on joseki. I played mostly handicap games. I also did tsumego etc., however.

Well, I was very annoyed with the situation, that I didn't improve, so I stopped go. After a while, I started go again, but again I was still stuck at 6 kyu. So this time I decided to get lessons from a stronger player to become stronger. I checked the web pages of Franz-Josef Dickhut and Robert Jasiek (two strong german amateur players) on the modalities and for some reason I decided to try and pay for a lesson from Robert.

The lesson took place on KGS and consisted of a game for 1 hour and then a discussion. The game was without handi. So it was very interesting, I made several big mistakes but was allowed to take back moves.

After the game, Robert pointed out my weaknesses. So first of all, too lazy to read out life and death situations and connection of groups. Often, I would think "These stones will be alive somehow" but then they weren't. It was an attitude thing. But Robert also said I shoud do more tsumego because for my level I was not good enough at L&D. The next Topic was the Thing with sente and gote. Robert made the suggestion that I should play sente moves before gote moves, and I agreed. The next thing was counting and endgame. This was totally my weak point. I would play endgame moves way too small, gote moves before sente moves as stated before, and thus lose points on every move. There were also some endgame techniques and tesujis that I didn't know at all.

So after I was confronted with my weaknesses, I was a bit...down. But at least I could work on it. And Robert's first point, my attitude in the game, beeing to lazy to read out things, was true.

So I took a few lessons and improved rather quickly. I improved on my fuseki and I learned some middle-game and endgame techniques and tesujis and got rid of some bad habits. I got used to count during games. I think I improved the most in the endgame and got in a few months to KGS 1 kyu - 1dan, real life 1 kyu.

I would say that the lessons were totally worth it. Robert can be a strict teacher, but this is a good thing^^ The KGS Chat is suboptimal for questions and answers, but it is manageable. So maybe if your stuck at some level and you cannot figure out why, you should try to figure out what your main weaknesses are (Kind of obvious, now that I think about it).

Well I hope this long post was interesting for some people. Cheers

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I have a couple of questions! How often did you take lessons? Once a week or so? You say you progressed from 6 kyu to 1 kyu in a few months . . . how many months?

Also, feel free to ignore this next question, but you say you worked on your weaknesses (your life-and-death lacked rigor, etc.) and that this helped you improve, but in my own experience improvement comes not just from being more rigorous but from understanding more the nature of the game. Did your lessons help you to look at the board in a new way? I have always wondered if teachers can open up that aspect of learning Go or if it's something that can emerge only in the private consciousness of the pupil. Sorry if that's clear as mud!

Pride never tastes good! Congratulations on being able to break through and reach a new level.

-Studying only few basic joseki (you will mostly pick it up from opponents or by watching others play)

-Basic concept of fuseki (so you don't play random moves in the opening)

-Tsumego is 90% of your power. (knowing if the group can live or die, connection/cutting tesuji etc.)

-Keeping sente for key points...

-Endgame, doing all sente moves before a gote move (duh obvious)

-Counting territory... also quite important (no need to go into complicated counting.. simply seeing if you are winning or losing is good enough and if the game is even then try counting more precisely)

This should get anyone to 1 dan.

TL;DR

Just do tsumego...

You are dreaming.

And you want us to give up on our dreams? You dream-killer!

It is fine to dream of becoming the world's top player, but improving relies on accepting reality that more must be learnt than in one's dreams.

I have a lot of friends who don't even do tsumego and they have never studied from books and they are around 1-3 kyu EGF (1k-3d KGS).

Another friend who solves tsumego on daily bases and did study quite for a while crossed into dan region (but is probably stronger than shodan).

None of them ever had teachers stronger than perhaps around 2 dan.

I can tell that I am improving much more from simply solving tsumego.

So I am pretty sure that unless you have a serious mental disorder anyone can reach 1 dan with working not so hard. (It will take you years tho, but if you practice on daily basis it could take 2 years max.)

Based on what you wrote, I'm going to make a wild guess that you are under 50 years of age. Am I correct or wildly wrong ?

Regardless of your age range, based on what evidence do you make your claims above for people who start Go after 50 years of age ?What are the (approximate) mean, median, and mode of the starting Go ages of these friends of yours ?
( Just ballpark figures will suffice, to the near 10 years of age, even. )

Google confirmation bias.

They all started around when they were around 14-16 years old.

I don't understand why are you stating that it is not possible?

I have been playing go for 10 months and I managed to reach around 5 kyu on KGS, and that is with limited time and mental fatigue. Imagine if I had nothing else to do and only devoted my time to go... I would have been very close to a dan level.

I guess it will take me few years to reach dan level if I continue the way I am now.

Thank you.Please re-read what I wrote. I stated no such thing. You either mis-read or mis-understood what I wrote.

Since you missed my question or mis-understood it, I'll ask again:

Your evidence for your claims of anyone is only for people who started Go around 15 years old.

But your claim is for anyone. Therefore:
Based on what evidence do you make your claims for people who start Go after the age of 50 ?

Krama, maybe you have not realised yet that strength improvement is not linear, but exponentially becomes harder.

Is it just me or this sounds like someone paid the OP to advertise these two go teachers? The entire topic is just an advertisement.


Not cool by my opinion.

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Stefany, web programmer

I think it's just you... (and not cool in my opinion, but maybe that's just me... )

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Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

Hi Stephany93, I the OP was not paid to post my experience. On the contrary I pay for my lessons.

My idea to post my experience came from a few other threads in which people talked about problems to overcome a gap, which I experienced (at least) twice.

I am not new to this forum, I made a few posts, I also made some minor contributions to sensei's library, and wrote a go book review.

I wanted to share my experience with you.

@ Stephany93:
Please do not bad-mouth me or talk ill of me, I find that unfair.

Well, on the other hand, on some level this is an "advertisement". I took go lessons, and they where positive for me. But I wasn't paid to write this.

@singular
You asked how often I take lessons? In the beginning 3 times a month, now only 1-2 times because of work and family at the moment.

Do I look at the board in a different way now? This is so incredibly hard to answer!

Well I play "safer" now, try to calculate the L&D and connection of my groups.
I count the score during the game to decide whether to invade or to reduce. I learned that there is such thing as "reducing". Before, I knew only "invading" and "leaning attack", but "leaning attack" is probably not the same as "reducing"???
So the answer to your question is yes, I look at the board a bit differently...?
Cheers!

I think it is possible for anyone with a certain intellectual disposal and a certain stamina in their attitude to reach 1 dan without a teacher, using the path that most of us agree upon, being
- playing games with the intention of implementing some new ideas an eradicating bad habits, maintaining some winning attitude
- reviewing these games
- doing tsumego
- and getting some source of new ideas

I do believe however that it is much easier to get there with a teacher because of three main reasons
- paying a teacher will motivate you to keep up the discipline and also puts the lead for the project in someone else's hands
- you get positive feedback from a teacher for good moves, regardless of the result (a major let down for many aspiring players who are rank driven)
- the teacher will select the new ideas that befit your current level and will point out mistakes confidently

For some people, the things you need to do to become 1d are just too hard, intellectually or mentally. I don't think though that these people will often aspire for that path in the first place. So, for most people who find Go an attractive leisure, I do believe 1d is within reach. I actually even think 5d is in reach for most of us, but it requires an enormous amount of time and a deliberate choice to work very hard on go, almost as if it is a professional activity. Only a happy few get to 5d leisurely. For 6d, I believe one needs to be trained professionally and from a young age at that, on top of being gifted.

1) Your suggestion casts very severe doubts on - and therefore let me defend - the reputation, integrity and credibility of Hanmanchu, myself and other teachers. I have never paid any pupil to express an (or even a particular) opinion about me. In particular, I have not paid my pupil Hanmanchu for this purpose, but he has paid me for taking lessons.

2) It is not apparent why you have not cast similar doubts about one-time or repeated positive statements by other pupils on other teachers.

1) i used to think that everyone can reach 1d.

after tutoring multiple dumb students simple math...
my opinion has changed.

2) Robert should have skills and DEDICATION to teach kyu level plays.
you will have hard time finding someone who has more dedication than Robert.

3) I don't think Hanmanchu was paid.

Hanmanchu: Instead of paying for your lecture...I suggest youtube Korean professional game and commentary.
although they comment in Korean, they will show you variations which you can understand their points.
If you really want to be strong...learn from the best.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Go is weird. What is it about this "simple" game that causes people to constantly get stuck at a certain rank, ignoring the fact that they might not be trying to improve. I'm not talking about someone who only plays casually and hasn't improved from 9k after 10,000 games, I'm talking about the people who comment that if you start too late, then you can only hope to become 5d at best, even with a lot of dedication. What is it about simple black and white stones on 361 intersections that bars all but the most dedicated and gifted from becoming such a strength even if they try hard, and long, enough?

The closer I get to 1d, the more and more I understand how someone (I think Edlee) can say that 1d is where you actually do understand the basics of the game, and that was back when I thought 8ks new everything about everything.