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When to resign
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10713		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  S2W [ Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  When to resign
Recently I've been thinking about go etiquette - specifically when to resign. I try to draw the line at speculative invasions if I know they'll only work if my opponent makes a mistake, but I'll usually play to the end even if I'm well behind (up to say ~30 points - but with my bad counting the difference might be even greater).

I guess I'm wondering what everyone else thinks. Do you fight to the bitter end or do you go gently into that good night? What about your opponents - do you ever resign in disgust if an opponent plays too long/slow?
Author:  DrStraw [ Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Resign when you are convinced there is no chance at all to win, by fair means or foul. Otherwise play on.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Premature resignation is a sign of a missing desire to win. Resignation is appropriate when it is less probable to win than that one of the players dies during the game, although I sometimes am less strict especially if the opponent has shown a clearly superior understanding of the game. I respect my opponent's possibly different interpretation of appropriate resignation, except that I sometimes demonstrate clearly on the board if my opponent wants to be tougher than in sentence 2.
Author:  Uberdude [ Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
It depends a lot on the game. If I am playing some mindless blitz online and screw up the first corner and die then I might resign. Sure I could carry on and fight hard and still win, but as I've invested so little in the game I consider it a waste of my time and will just start a new game (unless of course my opponent annoyed me and I want revenge! ;-) ). On the opposite end of the spectrum would be the first game of my British Championship title match. I screwed up in the first fight and was pretty demoralised and felt like resigning before lunch. But seeing as there were hundreds of people watching, we'd paid Alexander Dinerstein 3p to commentate, and this was the title match I kept on playing (but still lost as my heart wasn't in it, I need to get mentally stronger).
Author:  Bonobo [ Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
I have won so many “lost” games and lost so many “won” games … so I also recommend only to resign when you are absolutely, totally, 101% sure that you have lost the game. And perhaps to play on even then … since endgame play is important to learn.

Greetings, Tom
Author:  Bantari [ Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
My rule is simple: resign when the game is no longer fun.
This can happen for many reasons: i can't win anymore, i can't lose anymore, something more important comes along, or whatever. Life is too short to grind on if all you do is grinding on, or put aside more important things when "later" never comes...
Author:  Bonobo [ Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Bantari wrote:
My rule is simple: resign when the game is no longer fun. [..] Life is too short to grind on if all you do is grinding on [..]
I like that.

BUT … fun and terror often take turns when I play, and sometimes I think it’s no fun anymore, and then “something” happens, and I see the light again. In my recent games I’ve had this quite often. I was JUST about to resign, and then either my opponent made some mistake or I found that I could try something complicated “over there” … and then I won the lost game. That’s why I think it may be a good idea not to give up too early, out of emotional pain.
Author:  hyperpape [ Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
I resign when my opponent's path to victory seems simple and obvious (excepting endgame positions which I usually play out). Early on, a big lead isn't worth resigning, because you still have to fight to turn it in to a victory. On the other hand, there are times when your opponent could almost sleep their way to a win, and there's no point in playing then.
Author:  oca [ Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Hi,

put simply, when I do a big mistake, I try to give me a second chance...

Example 1 :
Here I just "cannot help to play that ladder that is not working..."
by 47, I really considered resignation... but I gave me a second chance and won that one... mainly because my opponenent did mistake too like I just did...

Example 2 :
Here I did an hazardous fighting sequence that lead me to lose two L groups...
once again, at 99, I was really close to resign... but again I gave me a second chance and also won that one.

Example 3:
Here I losed the first corner fight... gave me a second chance, and... losed the second corner fight too.
:blackeye: + :blackeye: = move 116 : Thanks for the game, I will resign now...


Attachments:
resign.sgf [2.33 KiB]
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dead_L.sgf [2.69 KiB]
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ladder_36_45.sgf [4.37 KiB]
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Author:  Bonobo [ Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
I guess it’s just courtesy to not begrudge my opponent those opportunities for blunder that I allowed myself to grasp :twisted:
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi S2W,

Good question — you may have noticed there are as many
different answers as there are posts.(*)

One reason: you ask a general question,
seeking a general answer when there are many exceptions.

  • the Golden Rule applies ;
  • when to resign is one of the first things an insei learns ;
  • don't be a <insert your favorite expletive> ;
  • (*) too many cooks spoil the broth.

See also Post 15 of this thread.
Author:  Knotwilg [ Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Let me answer a different question then:

Question: should I in general rather resign or not resign?
Answer: rather not.

Question: why?
Answer: because not resigning will allow you to emotionally recover after a setback, allow your opponent to make an even bigger blunder, allow you in general to win games which may have seem lost but in effect were not.

Question: won't my opponents be offended then?
Answer: maybe. But they should only feel offended if your continuation was against all odds and wasted their time entirely. Even then they can see it as a test to their stamina.

The point is, you will learn about when to resign by not resigning as a default. If you resign by habit, you will never know if you gave up a game that might have been won. You will only experience this as you continue. Then later you can still resign the portion of games you have learnt are desperate indeed.

There's a parallel with "play sharp or play safe?" Play sharp as a default, you'll learn through immediate punishment. If you play safe as a default, you'll lose slowly and won't get any feedback on the slow moves themselves.
Author:  S2W [ Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Thanks to everyone for replying and reenforcing my own internal biases!

(Seriously, thanks. I was 90% sure that I was ok, but playing online with no visible feedback from my opponent there was always that 10% heckling me from the back of my brain, calling out: you're being a dooooooche. I'm genuinely surprised at how relieved I am to quiet that voice [/neurosis])
Author:  Abyssinica [ Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
After you lose 5 stones in the fuseki due to a dumb mistake.
Author:  Marcus [ Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Abyssinica wrote:
After you lose 5 stones in the fuseki due to a dumb mistake.


Only 5 stones? Should still be winnable at my level. Just becomes a bit of a handicap game. :mrgreen:
Author:  Bonobo [ Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Abyssinica wrote:
After you lose 5 stones in the fuseki due to a dumb mistake.
I’ve won games after losing a lot more stones in the beginning <shrug>
Author:  Elom [ Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
In every pro game with a difference of more than five points (except HayaGo), both players knew who was winning.
Author:  Polama [ Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Personally, I like to count the board as if I'm going to get any double sente/my sente/double gote exchanges. I assume the opponent will play defensively in any exchange that needs deep reading. That's my approximation of "my opponent plays a terrible, blunder filled endgame." If that's still not enough, I resign.
Author:  xed_over [ Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to resign
Bonobo wrote:
Abyssinica wrote:
After you lose 5 stones in the fuseki due to a dumb mistake.
I’ve won games after losing a lot more stones in the beginning <shrug>

I seem to recall that Bill once posted a pro game where one of the players lost a 36 stone group fairly early in the game, yet still won. (I don't know how to search for and find such games)
Author:  EdLee [ Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
xed_over wrote:
a pro game where one of the players lost a 36 stone group
fairly early in the game, yet still won.
This depends very heavily on the exact circumstances:
if the 36-stone loss was a pure loss, with little or no compensation,
then at pro level it's practically impossible
to turn the game around (barring extremely exceptional cases,
such as acute health conditions, etc.)
But if there was some compensation, even if it was an uneven trade,
or if the whole board evaluation was still very unclear,
then maybe a turn around was possible — yes, would be
nice to see the actual SGF.
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