I don't know about the amateurs, but for pros it's definitely self atari
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1FvPxmmfE
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| Author: | Elom [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Most popular blunders at different levels |
Hello, this is just a question that has been on my mind recently: what are the most popular blunders and mistakes at the different skill levels, 30k to 20k, 20k to 10k, 10k to 1d, to 5d and 6d to top pro. Which particular blunder (like the self-atari, for example) would be most suited to have a fanclub? Thanks |
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| Author: | S2W [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
This is common (and a favorite) up to 10k: http://senseis.xmp.net/?44PointOneSpaceLowPincerInvasionInterception#diag9. At 9k I've been seeing this a lot: http://youtu.be/nLI6YkCwfOM (But it may also just be that I've been looking for it more). |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
Do you mean the most popular or the most common? |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
Up to 10 kyu, I would say damezumari. |
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| Author: | moboy78 [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
I don't know about the amateurs, but for pros it's definitely self atari https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1FvPxmmfE |
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| Author: | Abyssinica [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
S2W wrote: This is common (and a favorite) up to 10k: http://senseis.xmp.net/?44PointOneSpaceLowPincerInvasionInterception#diag9. At 9k I've been seeing this a lot: http://youtu.be/nLI6YkCwfOM (But it may also just be that I've been looking for it more). I remember a 9k I played pincered me after a kick, and I attached to their stone and ended up punishing them in the corner. About 100 moves later, I approached his other 4-4 stone in the top left and he kicked me again, but that time he didn't pincer me.
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| Author: | schawipp [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
My personal list for bugs to be fixed (currently 6k EGF):
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| Author: | oca [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
My homework, At 15kyu : - Still missing some basic atari(sad but true) ... but I don't atari anything I can - Still playing bad/broken shapes / ... but I start to recongnise them more and more ofen - Still playing small moves ... but I start to get better at not closing immediatly that first line and keeping moves for yose - Still to focused on territory ... but I start to accept changing that - Still losing whole "should be alive" groups ... I'm working on this (= play life and death problem, Study L, L+1, L+2, J goups and so on...) - Still arrive to situation where I cannot invade that hudge top that is too secure now (at least for my invading skills) ... I'm doing self review to try to understand why that happened - Joseki known at "whole sequence" level (verus at "move" level) -> don't know what to do when something change... ... try to study them move by move but that take way more time... |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
In my experience, one common mistake at almost all levels is to play aji-keshi by playing forcing moves needlessly or too early. At the lower kyu level, you'll see a lot of this kind of thing: Where it is often better to forgo the   exchange and play  directly.At higher levels, it gets more subtle but you still see the same basic problem. E.g: I see far too many dan level players prematurely make the   exchange, destroying the aji of approaching from the other side (e.g. at a) while building influence that is insufficiently justified by the position on the board.
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| Author: | Elom [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
Thanks everyone! It seems that mistakes like the "immature toddler" kick are more prevalent at certain levels, while, "aji-keshi" moves are common throughout all levels. this is because there are two ways to classify mistakes: Exact Move and Disadvantage Type. EM classifications are not necessarily sub-classifications of DT's, because one EM can have many different DT's. Okay, I'm sounding slightly like an Igo professor (for someone who can barely play decent Go that's interesting), but while an obvihous observation seems to be that while EM mistakes (like the "immature toddler" kick, for example) tend to be concentrated at particular levels, and DT mistakes (like aji-keshi) are mistakes made by players of all levels, the self atari is a clear exception to the rules. 30k to Pro, self-atari's are more to do with lapses of concentration and while of course even your average 11 year old pro has more mental discipline in go than many in their 20's, when one's mind is extremely busy it's the simplest things you miss. Candidates So Far: 30k-20k EM-Self Atari EM-IT Kick EM-4-4 Point One Space Low Pincer Invasion Interception Reverse Push Through (POSLPIIRPT for short) 20k-10k EM-IT Kick EM-POSLPIIRPT 10k-1k EM-D-Atari Overlook EM-Snapback Slip EM-One-Colour Counting 1d-5d empty 6d+ empty All Levels (DT) Aji-Keshi Small Moves Hmm, as for counting for only one colour, I don't seem to have ever made that particular mistake. I'm sure I've made particularly weird mistakes not many people have made before, so since kyu players go style is based quite a lot on the types of mistakes they makes, we could use this growing list to help people improve. |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
Lots of low dans make this mistake (6 should push at 7 in sente first): P.S. Darn!, I shouldn't give away my secrets for easy KGS blitz wins 
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| Author: | jug [ Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most popular blunders at different levels |
some observations from handicapped games against weaker players. I see a lot of: * playing "big" points before "urgent" points in fear of letting the opponent get too much territory, basically "I want it all"-attitude often ending in every own group getting killed * tenuki too early, often leading to groups being killed * trying to kill groups with stones played too close (often ending in helping let the group live) * peeping and expecting the "obvious" fill while there are other possible responses to the peep * generalization of last item: playing a move expecting a specific response and then wondering that the opponent reacted differently; basically "no reading" or only one-path-reading * playing "contact"-moves (direct or diagonally), which often ends in strengthening the opponent * playing "thank-you" moves (basically aji-keshi), especially beginners play such moves often basically helping the opponent more than themselves * playing ko over single points (before yose) * protecting against a cut, which may look like a ladder, but can be protected by a net without fortifying * avoiding ko because of "fear of ko" observations from handicap-games with more-advanced-than-beginner players: * starting yose way too early * playing certain moves in the hope of the opponent making mistakes * attacking for the purpose of killing instead of attacking to put pressure on opponent in order to gain territory * playing ko-threats, that are no ko-threats ... or are helping the opponent * starting a ko without having ko-threats (or much too less) * play cutting stones for the sake of cutting, while cutting makes not much sense if it would cut 2 strong groups * fight fiercely about a small group, that can be easily sacrificed; basically defend/catch unimportant stones * getting closed in, living small in more groups to take care of (basically playing too defensive) |
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