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Question on double hane after invasion http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11766 |
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Author: | perceval [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Question on double hane after invasion |
Hello guys, I got a question about this double hane joseki after 3-3 invasion, which happened twice in my games recently I know this sequence is locally joseki but here, because of the marked black stone; i do not feel that my ponnuki is useful. i feel i need to add a move for security , like a b or c, but b or c would help B build the bottom. after a i should be able to live, but i feel Black got the better deal So was the invasion worng in that context ? To me invading this kind of high double wing formation is almost automatic , is this a bad habit ? What would be the alternatives ? after a standard approach i feel the kick is unpleasant too Is there some other line for W in this invasion? i do not know any Or am i underestimating my second line ponnuki ? Is there something better than a b c? If it depends a lot on the top right corner, lets assume it was like that i would appreciate any comments ![]() thanks in advance for your go brain juice |
Author: | Kirby [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Question on double hane after invasion |
If you don't like this result as white, you could consider this one: |
Author: | perceval [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Question on double hane after invasion |
Kirby wrote: If you don't like this result as white, you could consider this one: didnt know that line; no idea what to make of it. Seems to me that both player overplayed ![]() Thanks for the idea i will sleep on it Edit o i see after ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Uberdude [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Question on double hane after invasion |
How do you feel about this result? |
Author: | EdLee [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
perceval wrote: i understand Hi perceval,![]() The first thing to learn about ![]() ( Of course, globally, if there are even bigger fires, then ![]() ![]() One continuation -- if B connects with ![]() This way, B still keeps the corner, and W gets the ponnuki on the bottom instead of the right side. But this ![]() |
Author: | DJLLAP [ Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Question on double hane after invasion |
It isn't very good if the board is as open in your example, but if you really want to take the corner, you can just play a little submissively. This can be useful if B has more support on both sides, and you just need to take the corner away later in the game. The variation that Kirby shared can become similar to this shape too. But in this sequence it is gote. |
Author: | perceval [ Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Question on double hane after invasion |
Uberdude wrote: i feel i did not think of ![]() ![]() ![]() To answer more directly, i can see your line is appealing, even though the result of the attack after R12 is hard to predict at my level. it is beyond me to judge if this attack should be bigger than B territory at the bottom assuming perfect play, its also hard to evaluate taking into account the terrible play that will probably follow. @EdLee thanks for the details, indeed what i missed at first was the threat of a @DJLLAP: i thought of this variation but indeed I felt it was horribly submissive by comparison to the more common invasion line (here W is sealed on both sides) |
Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Question on double hane after invasion |
Something to bear in mind with that sixth line pushing is that while black does get a lot of territory, he already had a lot of territory (or nearly territory, and to stop it being so would create a weak group), so the extra territory you give from pushing is actually quite small. |
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