Life In 19x19 :: Re-introduction game

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X X O 1 X O X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X X X O 2 O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X X O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Then

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Black has 2 captures $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O O X X O a O O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X X O 3 4 O X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X X X O 2 O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X X O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

And white will, eventually, have to play at a, but that can wait to respond to black playing J16 (or white J16, black K17)

While those moves don't seem to cost black anything, b/c white has to respond and they don't have any direct implications elsewhere on the board, they are needlessly giving up ko threats.

Yeah, white is alive.

At first glance, I would be tempted to play L3 :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . 1 X X O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This is painful for white compared to

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . 2 X X O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Now the question is : while this seems good localy, is it the best move globaly?

I would have played the same as Tryss, on first instinct, however it can get a bit tricky:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . 0 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 5 4 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . 3 2 X 7 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . 1 X X O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

... and maybe further ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X X X O 5 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 2 . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . 0 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . X O X X X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . X X X O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Thus, the cut may enable white to cause some confusion and establish a group in black's moyo - I can not read all relevant variations, here.

Maybe a much simpler way (That's what I always tend to miss in a real game ...):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X X X O 3 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . 2 X X O X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

improves the connectivity of b's lower stones and still threatens to push through at L3 in one of the next moves. When white fixes that, :b3:

claims a huge territory which seems rather difficult to invade. Black also has most of top right corner and good potential at left side --> w will need doing something spectactular tu turn this.

Author:	jgr314 [ Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re-introduction game
This is an on-going game. Probably not interesting to anyone other than the current players. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Black to play (Captures B2 W0) $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . . X X O X . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:	Elom [ Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Re-introduction game
Black L14?

Author:	jgr314 [ Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Re-introduction game
I don't think so. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . O X X O 1 X O X X X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . O X X X O 2 O O O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . . X X O X . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] Then Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Black has 2 captures $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O O X X O a O O . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . O X X O 3 4 O X X X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . O X X X O 2 O O O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . . X X O X . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] And white will, eventually, have to play at a, but that can wait to respond to black playing J16 (or white J16, black K17) While those moves don't seem to cost black anything, b/c white has to respond and they don't have any direct implications elsewhere on the board, they are needlessly giving up ko threats.

Author:	Tryss [ Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Re-introduction game
Yeah, white is alive. At first glance, I would be tempted to play L3 : Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . 1 X X O X . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] This is painful for white compared to Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . 2 X X O X . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] Now the question is : while this seems good localy, is it the best move globaly?

Author:	schawipp [ Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Re-introduction game
Is this a 6-stone handycap game? I would have played the same as Tryss, on first instinct, however it can get a bit tricky: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . 0 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . 9 5 4 6 . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . O . 3 2 X 7 X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . 1 X X O X . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] ... and maybe further ... Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . X X X O 5 . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 2 . 6 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . 0 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . O . X O X X X 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . X X X O X . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] Thus, the cut may enable white to cause some confusion and establish a group in black's moyo - I can not read all relevant variations, here. Maybe a much simpler way (That's what I always tend to miss in a real game ...): Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . X X X O 3 . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . O . . . X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . 2 X X O X . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] improves the connectivity of b's lower stones and still threatens to push through at L3 in one of the next moves. When white fixes that, claims a huge territory which seems rather difficult to invade. Black also has most of top right corner and good potential at left side --> w will need doing something spectactular tu turn this.

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Re-introduction game http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15499	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Tryss [ Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Re-introduction game
@schawipp : How about this answer to the cut? Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . O O X X . X X X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O X X X . O X O X . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O O X X O . O O . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . O X X X O . O O O X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . O X . X O . O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . X X X O . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . O . . 2 X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . 1 X X O X . O . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go] But yeah, this area seems to be the most important on the board right now.

Author:	jgr314 [ Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Re-introduction game
5 stone handicap.

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