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How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
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Author:  LokBuddha [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
I just start replaying his games from the earliest from GOGOD CD. If I replay about 2 per day, then I'll get through the entire collection from 1986 to 2008 in about 1.5 years. Do you guys think it will help me improve from 2d?
Author:  hyperpape [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
And you win the 2010 Amazingly Specific Spin On An Eternally Debated Topic Question Post Award.

Are you asking about Lee Changho in particular or professional games in general, having chosen Lee as your favorite? Either way, I suspect there will be a lot of arbitrarily chosen opinion masquerading as fact waiting for you.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
LokBuddha wrote:
I just start replaying his games from the earliest from GOGOD CD. If I replay about 2 per day, then I'll get through the entire collection from 1986 to 2008 in about 1.5 years. Do you guys think it will help me improve from 2d?


Yes. :)
Author:  Numsgil [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
LokBuddha wrote:
I just start replaying his games from the earliest from GOGOD CD. If I replay about 2 per day, then I'll get through the entire collection from 1986 to 2008 in about 1.5 years. Do you guys think it will help me improve from 2d?


No. :(

...

:P
Author:  lorill [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
maybe :batman:
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
LokBuddha wrote:
I just start replaying his games from the earliest from GOGOD CD. If I replay about 2 per day, then I'll get through the entire collection from 1986 to 2008 in about 1.5 years. Do you guys think it will help me improve from 2d?


I imagine it would be better than spending the equivalent amount of time doing something non- go related...
Author:  LokBuddha [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
Yay, I choose Lee Changho since he is relatively modern, playing moves I understand.

I never understand Shusaku or Dosaku, and Go seigen so Lee Changho is my choice.
Author:  Monadology [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
LokBuddha wrote:
Yay, I choose Lee Changho since he is relatively modern, playing moves I understand.


That's interesting. Isn't he the one about which a pro said "I can play through anyone else's game once and understand them. To understand Lee Changho I must play through twice."

EDIT: It was Fujisawa Shuko that said it, turns out.
Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
yes it wouldnt hurt to review.

but any game, including your own, will help you improve.

i will say if you are 2 dan you have more freedom on which materials you can study.
Author:  LokBuddha [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
what about 4d like yourself? :D
Author:  Stefany93 [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
If you replay his games often, you will get as stronger as he is in 1.5 years. Good luck!
Author:  TMark [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
There is an interesting story about Yi Ch'ang-ho, when he was studying to be a pro. Apparently, he would play games with his fellow students and then return to have them commented on by Cho Hun-hyeon. Cho was supposed to have become worried that Yi would not make it because he could not remember some of his games. For a pro to forget games he had played earlier in the day would be astonishing and Cho was concerned, but it didn't matter.

On the subject of pros remembering games, there is a story about Kitani Minoru, who used to travel around Japan looking for prospective pupils. He would take an assistant with him, to arrange things like travel and accommodation, and also to record games if Kitani thought that they might be interesting. After Kitani's death, a collection of such games was found and the assistant was asked if he had recorded them; he said no and that they was no time for Kitani to have recorded them when they were on the move. The only assumption that they could make was that Kitani had remembered them and then recorded them when he got back to Tokyo.

Best wishes.
Author:  Magicwand [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
LokBuddha wrote:
what about 4d like yourself? :D


it should help me somewhat but i think i would improve faster if i start meditating prior to my game.
it is not what i can not read. it is more like what i dont read.
Author:  Marcus [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
Magicwand wrote:
LokBuddha wrote:
what about 4d like yourself? :D


it should help me somewhat but i think i would improve faster if i start meditating prior to my game.
it is not what i can not read. it is more like what i dont read.


I have both problems. The "can not read" category is getting smaller, but the "do not read" category is still a problem for me.
Author:  nexik [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
Monadology wrote:
"I can play through anyone else's game once and understand them. To understand Lee Changho I must play through twice."


It's because Yi Changho moves have few levels of understanding. When you are not so strong (weak) player you only see nice shapes and easy to understand flow. When you're strong (BTW: I'm weak :() you also see very depth reading which involve "WOW strategy".

This is way one see simple to understand joseki, fuseki and other see complicated fights
Author:  Toge [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
nexik wrote:
It's because Yi Changho moves have few levels of understanding. When you are not so strong (weak) player you only see nice shapes and easy to understand flow. When you're strong (BTW: I'm weak :() you also see very depth reading which involve "WOW strategy".


- Right on spot! We recognize joseki, because we've seen that joseki already. We recognize shape when we've seen that shape. I think it's crucial to have theme when reviewing games. I often check which professionals are known to have certain style that I'm interested in. For instance Otaki Hideo pays lot of attention to proper shape of his stones. His games are beautiful to watch after studying shape. Other players might be territory-oriented and tenacious, like Kobayashi Koichi. I always feel fighting spirit grow when looking at his games. I'm not sure how direct benefit replaying games has, but they are certainly good source of inspiration when you feel like you're in slump.
Author:  PYves [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
I think that when replaying pro games, the key is to enjoy it, so don't worry about which pro you study, just enjoy it and you will improve.

I recommend reading Lee Changho's book that was translated into french "Invasion et réduction" in 2 volumes, as it would give you insight to his way of thinking.

I recall in one game, he is deciding if he should invade or reduce, and the game is very close so he reads about 60 moves ahead and then counts the score as he expects it to be in 60 moves, then decides that he is winning by 3 points so he can just reduce.

Just that comment was a sweet reminder of how good professionals are.
Author:  Bantari [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How helpful is replaying Lee Changho games?
LokBuddha wrote:
I just start replaying his games from the earliest from GOGOD CD. If I replay about 2 per day, then I'll get through the entire collection from 1986 to 2008 in about 1.5 years. Do you guys think it will help me improve from 2d?


You ask the wrong question.

I assume you wish to improve and you wish to consistently work on it.
Then the question should be: 'What is the most efficient way for me to improve at the moment.'
Unfortunately, each of us is different, and each of us has different weaknesses that have to be addressed and thus different answers to the question above. It is a personal choice, and the answer you can get only by trying different things, different combinations, and then evaluating what works best. For you. At the moment.

Of course, if you simply have fun replaying pro games, more power to you - its a great way to spend your free time, and yes - it will certainly help you improve.

I think that, ultimately, everything you do that's Go-related will help you improve, even if its just staring at the empty board for a while. As MagicWand says - this might be what he needs most at the moment. This is probably what I need most right now too, lol.
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