Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Oso's Joseki Dictionary
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3465		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  oso [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Hello, everyone. It's a pitiful excuse for a dictionary, but I've been working on it whenever I've been able to get a chance. Right now the sgf file is frightningly small, but I'll be updating it whenever I get the chance(Read: When I get off me bum :blackeye: )

Right now It has about 9 variations, and would be useful to probably weak kyu's. A Dan level player would probably laugh at the pathetic fail that is my dictionary. D:

Anyways, hopefully, it'll be useful to someone. I'll be posting revisions probably once a week, with about 9 new variations a week, hopefully, too. :D

Created with Cgoban, on a computer that is not mine. :o
Attachment:
File comment: Sorry, wrong file. Here's the correct one!
Oso's Joseki Dictionary.sgf [5.81 KiB]
Downloaded 773 times
Author:  topazg [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Where do you get your source material?
Author:  illluck [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
It seems like it's original material mostly. I'd advice against using it as a resource, but it could be fun analysis material for positional and move evaluation.
Author:  oso [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Yes, it's mostly my own analysis in my own spare time, so the quality of the dictionary probably reflects that! haha!
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
I think the process of trying to work out joseki for yourself is probably very good for you.

However, as soon as you've done so I think you should make every effort to forget the final sequence you worked out. Some of the sequences in that file have large mistakes for one side or the other. :) (and it's nothing against you, I can't reliably work out what joseki should be, either)
Author:  amnal [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
oso: You might find it interesting to compare your variations with those at eidogo.com , which uses Kogos joseki dictionary. This is mostly based on a (now slightly outdated) joseki dictionary by Ishida, and is generally correct, though it does have errors and omissions of its own. I think that thinking of variations as you have done is a great idea, but that it would be even better to compare them to the real sequences that are played and try to understand the difference.
Author:  tchan001 [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Maybe you should consider renaming your work as "Oso's Opening Studies".
Author:  hyperpape [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Yes, Oso's Joseki Dictionary has much the same implications as Oso's Classic Works of Literature.
Author:  Tofu [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Although I disagree with some of what is in your SGF file, I think this is a pretty cool idea and I enjoyed looking through it. IMO, thinking about Go in this way can only help your game.
Author:  emeraldemon [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Some thoughts about the first three, take with skepticism:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Seems fine
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . 4 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


I think this one's probably fine.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Oso 2
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . 4 .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


I don't think you can play 4 or 5 without knowing what's in the nearby corners, 5 especially. For black I might play this way:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Better for black?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , 6 . . . . 4 .
$$ | . . . 5 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Then tennuki, and let white worry about patching up later, or how to deal with the split.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Black 5 definitely feels too loose to me, but it' a little hard to see how to deal with it. It's tempting to cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Trying to refute
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 8 7 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 6 3 4 . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


But I'm not sure how it will turn out...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Complicated fight?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 4 O X X . . . . .
$$ | . . X O X O . . . , .
$$ | . . 2 1 O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]
Author:  EdLee [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:53 am ]
Post subject: 
emeraldemon wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------[/go]
SmartGo finds only one game with the above local pattern, from the year 1578 :) :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . a . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 8 0 4 2 X . .
$$ | . 9 X 1 X O 6 .
$$ | . . 5 3 O 7 . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------[/go]
W has sente to play in (a) direction to reduce B.
Compare:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 5 . . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . 7 6 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------[/go]
Author:  tchan001 [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
emeraldemon wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------[/go]


http://senseis.xmp.net/?DaYaLiang

Da Ya Liang is a very old Chinese opening. I know it's from at least the Ming Dynasty cause there is a famous work on it for three-stone handicap games with 50 variations.
Author:  EdLee [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:08 am ]
Post subject: 
tchan001 wrote:
Da Ya Liang is a very old Chinese opening.
Thanks, tchan001.
Author:  emeraldemon [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Very interesting! So maybe this could fall into the category of trick-plays for white to try in handicap games?
Author:  illluck [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
@emerald: If I remember correctly, the book is aimed towards the weaker player, though I'd imagine white can try to play it too in handicap games with less than 4 stones. My impression was that there are quite a few tricky variations, so not sure if black really wants to use it as a handicap joseki.
Author:  mw42 [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Very cool idea, Oso. I imagine that as you get stronger you will trim the ones that don't seem to work well (or make that note) and, of course, add new ones. After a couple years it'll be interesting to look at.
Author:  jts [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oso's Joseki Dictionary
Confused... The sensei's page is a 4-4 approach joseki, the diagram above is 3-4. Surely that makes a large difference...?
Author:  tapir [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
tchan001 wrote:
emeraldemon wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------[/go]


http://senseis.xmp.net/?DaYaLiang

Da Ya Liang is a very old Chinese opening. I know it's from at least the Ming Dynasty cause there is a famous work on it for three-stone handicap games with 50 variations.


Da Ya Liang starts with 44 point, afaik. I would btw give a hug to the person who gives me the 50 variation study. Got creamed recently with only half a dozen of these variations, and asked this afterwards.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/