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| what the best move http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3839 |
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| Author: | phillip1882 [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | what the best move |
in a 3 stone handi against a 1k my opponent (white) tends to favor this opening. how should black follow up? |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
Gotta get gbreakfst. If time allows, I'l return to say why I think it is best. |
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| Author: | Kirby [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
I think you should try to move out with your stones. It's good to make your own plan, though. I'd probably consider this, first: Then, maybe this (though it might strengthen his stone): I also might consider kicking first: The kick may not be good, I guess. Anyway, these are the moves I'd be thinking of. I briefly thought of pincering the stone, but it's risky because you start to get enclosed: Edit: Ninja'd by Joaz... |
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| Author: | Shaddy [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
You could also not play the one-space pincer, which would make things easy.. or 6 could be low. |
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| Author: | phillip1882 [ Wed May 11, 2011 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
in the first game we played, i did the following my resoning was: since both the two sone groups are weak, i attach and make both stronger. though i ended up losing, this seems like correct thinking to me. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Wed May 11, 2011 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
There is no need to make either stronger. Just push out between the two, thereby threatening both. When you attach, you commit yourself. When you push between without attaching, you have greater flexibility to attack either one. He defends one, then you crush the other. Play so that he has to commit first. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Wed May 11, 2011 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
Shaddy wrote: You could also not play the one-space pincer, which would make things easy... The one-space pincer did seen a tad agressive to me too. @OP: However, if you had another stone nearby, such as the marked stone like this: ...or this: ...then the tight pincer seems reasonable. But the problem with the unsupported one-space pincer is that he runs out with 5, and now he is threatening 7 at 'a' or 'b' or 'c': Your opponent made a mistake with 7, creating a second local group before the first was safe. He should have done something more like this: ...and now the force of your pincer has been blunted. Shaddy wrote: ... or 6 could be low. IMHO, 6 has to be high to be consistent with 4. As mentioned above, 4 is probably an overplay, but 6 low just gives up on the attack. |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Wed May 11, 2011 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
I have to respectfully disagree with Joaz. The one-space pincer is fine IMO. Continuing from where his last diagram left off, I see no reason why it's bad to play like this. You also have other choices instead of the marked black stone as well. I also believe you have a choice whether to play  high or low. If you're interested, see lessons 135-137 here, for a bunch of the variations that can ensue.
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| Author: | yoyoma [ Wed May 11, 2011 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
Joaz Banbeck wrote: The one-space pincer did seen a tad agressive to me too. ---------------------- As mentioned above, 4 is probably an overplay... Nonsense. I don't know what to write here, I almost feel like I'm being trolled here or something. One space pincer is overplay? Black even has a stone in the other corner... |
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| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Wed May 11, 2011 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
In my four-stones-handicap-games I always play the one-space-low-pincer, if White takes the corner, I get Sente and make a San-Ren-Sei-Formation. If White jumps up, I play like this White still has to catch those three stones (Sente for Black), 'a' has a lot of Aji and I have a huge corner. I like : ) |
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| Author: | LovroKlc [ Wed May 11, 2011 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
yoyoma wrote: Joaz Banbeck wrote: The one-space pincer did seen a tad agressive to me too. ---------------------- As mentioned above, 4 is probably an overplay... Nonsense. I don't know what to write here, I almost feel like I'm being trolled here or something. One space pincer is overplay? Black even has a stone in the other corner... yup... feels allright for me. and jumping out is usually bad for W. he should get san-san or double-pincer. |
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| Author: | Solomon [ Wed May 11, 2011 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
SoDesuNe wrote: In my four-stones-handicap-games I always play the one-space-low-pincer, if White takes the corner, I get Sente and make a San-Ren-Sei-Formation. If White jumps up, I play like this White still has to catch those three stones (Sente for Black), 'a' has a lot of Aji and I have a huge corner. I like : ) This is not good for Black. |
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| Author: | SoDesuNe [ Wed May 11, 2011 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
Yeah, my opponent kept saying, it's good enough for White and I kept playing it. Still, now he always takes the corner or plays funny variations ^^ |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Wed May 11, 2011 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
phillip1882 wrote: in the first game we played, i did the following my resoning was: since both the two sone groups are weak, i attach and make both stronger. though i ended up losing, this seems like correct thinking to me. Not to me. The kosumi,  , strengthens the  stones without strengthening the  stones. Isn't that a better idea?  In your variation, the stone is weakened, but the  stone is sacrificed and the stone is weakened.
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| Author: | EdLee [ Wed May 11, 2011 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
No problem with the one-space pincer  , and kosumi is a very natural move......because B does not want to be boxed in by  :If W cannot close B with one move (say above), then B can consider a pincer in the  direction,(could also be at (a) or (b), etc.) which also works well with the existing stone: |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Wed May 11, 2011 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
Joaz Banbeck wrote: Shaddy wrote: You could also not play the one-space pincer, which would make things easy... The one-space pincer did seen a tad agressive to me too. I agree. Not that the one space pincer is incorrect. It may actually be the best play, for all I know. However, as a practical matter it seems, as Joaz says, a bit too aggressive for a three stone game. Generally in a handicap game it is up to White to seek complications. The one space pincer makes that easier than less aggressive pincers. (OC, if it suits your style, go right ahead. )For instance, with a two space high pincer, , if White tries the same tactics, after  White has no strong counterattack against the pincer stone.
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| Author: | EdLee [ Wed May 11, 2011 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bill Spight wrote: I agree. Ah, it's not the pincer part, but the one-space (low) part you were referring to. 
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| Author: | illluck [ Wed May 11, 2011 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
Then again, in general pincers are more complicated than extensions. For example, this can be tough for the weaker player. |
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| Author: | Harleqin [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: what the best move |
Since White has neglected to press the pincer stone, I would be inclined to play like this: This seems to make the splitting with  more forceful, since the distance between the white groups is smaller. could be seen as an inducing move.
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