I second studying pro games. Particularly games of fighters and killers, like Kato, Sakata, Jowa.
Good luck!
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| Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7095 |
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| Author: | NoSkill [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
Im known for having big failure openings and being 20-40 pts down, then coming back to kill something or do some kind of win. When I don't have this terrible openings (say just a calm regular opening) i can crush people my rank within 80 moves often times. So im wondering if there is anyway to train other than studying opening patterns, like studying how to judge better or something that im missing? I have studied sanrensei and low chinese, some joseki etc. But I still end up making my biggest mistakes in the fuseki... is the answer just to play a calm opening then start the fight midgame and win that ? |
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| Author: | cdybeijing [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
Review pro games, commented ones are best. Better yet, find a pro whose games you like and study his (or her) games in particular. |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
There are lots of books about the opening, read them. |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
I second studying pro games. Particularly games of fighters and killers, like Kato, Sakata, Jowa. Good luck!
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| Author: | NoSkill [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
Uberdude wrote: There are lots of books about the opening, read them. I have read some but as I said, unless a pattern comes up where is specifically know how to play it goes off. I generally think that any opening I do tends to be bad unless its super solid and slow, but my midgame or reading is the only thing keeping me at 2k-1D on kgs. |
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| Author: | Josh Hatch [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
NoSkill wrote: Uberdude wrote: There are lots of books about the opening, read them. I have read some but as I said, unless a pattern comes up where is specifically know how to play it goes off. I generally think that any opening I do tends to be bad unless its super solid and slow, but my midgame or reading is the only thing keeping me at 2k-1D on kgs. I agree with Bill and cdybeijing. Studying pro games will show you a lot of different openings and not just patterns. It will help you get a feel for what pros see as good, bad and even results if you are looking at commented games. It's also quite fun, imo. |
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| Author: | Loons [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
Strong players' teaching/reviews of your games. Emphasis: Strong. Without powerful guidance it's easy to spend time wastefully misunderstanding/misapplying real ideas eg. from books. |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
Ensure you don't make DDK mistakes in the opening. Beyond that, read Rin Kaiho's fuseki dictionary twice. Since you notice that you fall behind in the opening, why don't you simply learn from your mistakes? How do you know that you are behind if you do not understand that you are behind? Can you or can you not do positional judgement during the opening? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Loons wrote: Strong players' teaching/reviews of your games. I agree completely with Loons. In fact, I'd up the emphasis not only to "pro" but "a good-level pro who is also a good teacher for you."Emphasis: Strong. Without powerful guidance it's easy to spend time wastefully misunderstanding/misapplying real ideas eg. from books. (Of course, tuition remains an issue.) With a good teacher, next is how well you follow the teacher's suggestions (your homework), and how hard you work. YMMV. |
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| Author: | NoSkill [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
RobertJasiek wrote: Ensure you don't make DDK mistakes in the opening. Beyond that, read Rin Kaiho's fuseki dictionary twice. Since you notice that you fall behind in the opening, why don't you simply learn from your mistakes? How do you know that you are behind if you do not understand that you are behind? Can you or can you not do positional judgement during the opening? Well my bad openings usually come down to this: 1: Lack of knowledge of mini-chinese, kobayashi, 3-4 joseki patterns (other than the basics), and such things. But MAINLY it is because of: 2. Playing a move that looks interesting after only reading a few moves into it. 3. Seeing the correct move with my instinct, because my instinct is actually good for fuseki, but then doubting it thinking it might be too slow and invading or doing a bad move instead. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
NoSkill wrote: Well my bad openings usually come down to this: Are those points your own assessment, your opinion, or the opinion of your teacher(s)?1: Lack of knowledge of mini-chinese, kobayashi, 3-4 joseki patterns (other than the basics), and such things. But MAINLY it is because of: 2. Playing a move that looks interesting after only reading a few moves into it. 3. Seeing the correct move with my instinct, because my instinct is actually good for fuseki, but then doubting it thinking it might be too slow and invading or doing a bad move instead. If they are your opinion, then how do you know how accurate they are? |
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| Author: | NoSkill [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: NoSkill wrote: Well my bad openings usually come down to this: Are those points your own assessment, your opinion, or the opinion of your teacher(s)?1: Lack of knowledge of mini-chinese, kobayashi, 3-4 joseki patterns (other than the basics), and such things. But MAINLY it is because of: 2. Playing a move that looks interesting after only reading a few moves into it. 3. Seeing the correct move with my instinct, because my instinct is actually good for fuseki, but then doubting it thinking it might be too slow and invading or doing a bad move instead. If they are your opinion, then how do you know how accurate they are? My opinion... I believe it is true because often times in a game I will see a move that instantly makes me want to play it, but then I think and say no, play a different move. In review im told the move I first thought of is better. Also like I said I will play the "interesting move" when I shouldnt, like in the game vs 1D I have on this site. Costs me a lot of games. Someone has told me I am too bloodthirsty and that is why I am not stronger, that I am only good at killing. |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
NoSkill wrote: 1: Lack of knowledge of mini-chinese, kobayashi, 3-4 joseki patterns (other than the basics), and such things. Read fuseki dictionaries. Quote: 2. Playing a move that looks interesting after only reading a few moves into it. Read more deeply. Now that was easy:) Quote: 3. Seeing the correct move with my instinct, because my instinct is actually good for fuseki, but then doubting it thinking it might be too slow and invading or doing a bad move instead. See (1.) and you must acquire an ability to make positional judgement during the opening. For that, read related go theory books on positional judgement (or wait until mine appear), opening theory books to understand basics of directions etc. in openings and go theory books on strategic concepts to be able to apply them to a position in the opening. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
NoSkill wrote: My opinion... What was/were the level(s) of the reviewer(s)? The "someone" or some people?
In review i'm told... Someone has told me... |
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| Author: | Alguien [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Are those points your own assessment, your opinion, or the opinion of your teacher(s)? If they are your opinion, then how do you know how accurate they are? If only everyone (me included) silently applied this questions to all their assumptions, the world would be a better place. |
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| Author: | NoSkill [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: NoSkill wrote: My opinion... What was/were the level(s) of the reviewer(s)? The "someone" or some people?In review i'm told... Someone has told me... around 4D |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
NoSkill wrote: around 4D See Loon's suggestions, Post #7.In China, some amateur 6 dans are at or near pro level (even game or 0.5 komi), so some 4 dans in China are 3 stones from pro. On systems with amateur 8 or 9 dans, some 4 dans are 5 stones from pro. There's a gap. You could be very accurate about your own assessment (Post #10)... or not. What if you're way off? |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
Pro playing strength is no guarantee for better teaching quality. Stronger teaching by players with amateur playing strength is possible. |
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| Author: | NoSkill [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
I wouldnt mind getting a pro to review my game for 10-20$, but usually that is too cheap. And I dont think a 6D can hit all the points I need... anyone know a 8D+ kgs that goes sgf reviews? |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??) |
NoSkill wrote: And I dont think a 6D can hit all the points I need... No single teacher can because every teacher has his weaknesses. Try several teachers and learn from the one telling you the most (for your money)! |
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