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My first under the stone in a game
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7912		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Uberdude [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  My first under the stone in a game
After playing for almost 8 years, I've finally had the pleasure of playing an under the stones tesuji in a game :)

Author:  jts [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
I think it's necessary to avoid seki at least, am I misreading?
Author:  shapenaji [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
jts wrote:
I think it's necessary to avoid seki at least, am I misreading?


Yeah, I deleted my post the second after I wrote it, hoping to interdict before someone got to see my idiocy :)
Author:  logan [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
Well, good for you : )
Author:  daal [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
Mmmm. That must have felt good.
Author:  Uberdude [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
I probably didn't need the under the stones to kill, for example Tooveli suggested b8 at a7, but as I had read that the a5 descent was not sente to kill my lower side group back when I went for the kill with e2 I chose the variation that allowed me to play under the stones as it's so pretty ;-) . In fact I think white can live with f9 at b6, if then black b8 then white d8 is trouble, so black has to e10 instead and then white b6 gives black the choice to either capture the 4 white stones in the centre, or cut at a9 and allow white to live and use sente to kill the b14 group above in ko (or is f17 killable?).
Author:  TheBigH [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
I've learned this about tesujis. They're challenging to learn and satisfying to pull off, but you seldom ever get the chance to use them in a game because opportunities either don't arise or you don't spot them at the time.
Author:  otenki [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
TheBigH wrote:
I've learned this about tesujis. They're challenging to learn and satisfying to pull off, but you seldom ever get the chance to use them in a game because opportunities either don't arise or you don't spot them at the time.


I'm not sure what the definition of tesuji's is but my experience is that they occur in almost all my games.
If you play aggressive enough and force your oponents into bad shape then you'll see them.

Mostly howhever we never play them because both oponents know its there and leave the situation alone.

My most used:

- Break the bamboo
- Net
- Driving tesuji
- Throw in
- Clamp
- Belly attachement

Do lots of tsumego and you'll see them everywhere. :-)

Otenki
Author:  tj86430 [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
TheBigH wrote:
They're challenging to learn and satisfying to pull off, but you seldom ever get the chance to use them in a game because opportunities either don't arise or you don't spot them at the time.

Sounds exactly like squeeze plays in Bridge. Perhaps OP's under the stone tesuji would be like criss-cross squeeze, or is there some other tesuji that is even more rare and satisfying?
Author:  Koroviev [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
That must have felt great. Did your opponent not see it until you played it?
Author:  Uberdude [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
He saw it at least when I played a3 connection, but played it out as it's too pretty not to (and he's my friend so humoured me).
Author:  Koroviev [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
Uberdude wrote:
He saw it at least when I played a3 connection, but played it out as it's too pretty not to (and he's my friend so humoured me).


I suspected as much - the true curmudgeon would have resigned one move earlier.
Author:  Tooveli [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
I didn't see it till move 123 when Uberdude had conditional-moved me so I figured I was dead (and not alive as I had previously hoped) and should read it out. It would have been too mean to resign at that point. I probably wouldn't have stopped to look for it if he didn't conditional-move me though.

The problem started when I missed it on move 83 and thought at that point that I was being really clever by letting him get extra points in order to keep the peep and later have A5 descend in sente. I was hoping this might be enough to live with the group after tempting him to overextend and attack it. He even said something in chat that made me think he'd missed this sequence. I was feeling like I might even have a chance to make a game of it with the K9 cut coming up soon that is a ladder that is very clearly good for me as it slams straight into the White stones at Q12/R14... that is until you actually check it... silly diagonals.

The game was pretty nonsense as I went a long way behind early on and was just looking to make the messiest board position I could and tempt him into overextending to finish it early and then hope that I could find some cool tesuji to turn the game around. That plan doesn't work out so well when it's your opponent that finds the cool tesuji.
Author:  Uberdude [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My first under the stone in a game
Tooveli wrote:
The problem started when I missed it on move 83 and thought at that point that I was being really clever by letting him get extra points in order to keep the peep and later have A5 descend in sente. I was hoping this might be enough to live with the group after tempting him to overextend and attack it. He even said something in chat that made me think he'd missed this sequence.


At that point I wasn't planning on killing the white group so wasn't thinking the peep was valuable. My plan was just to chase it and either let it connect to the left side and then play o13 to make a big territory on the top, or else cut it from the left and have a pop at killing that (ko?), or else the top side (????) if that fails.
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