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How to continue?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8148
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Author:  marvin [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  How to continue?

Hi! Is 4 bad? And what to play for next move?
thanks

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . 1 . . .
$$ - . . 5 . 3 . .
$$ - . . . 2 4 . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

Author:  Uberdude [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to continue?

4 is fine. Another choice is to attach at the 3-3 point. The intuitive block seems fine, white's shape is a bit funny. He needs to add a move like a and then you can extend from your wall or keep pushing.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . 1 . . .
$$ - . . 5 . 3 a .
$$ - . . 6 2 4 . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]


The idea of the 3-3 attach is to get this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 5 . 7 . .
$$ - . . 4 1 . . .
$$ - . . 6 . 3 . .
$$ - . . . 2 . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 8 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]


and then 3 is silly compared to this joseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 5 . 7 . .
$$ - . . 4 1 . . .
$$ - . . 6 . . 3 .
$$ - . . . 2 . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 8 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]


It's not a one-way street though, white can try 5 at 6 depending on the ladder.

Author:  marvin [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to continue?

I had this feeling that b is heavy here but I dont know?
How b continue after this? These kind of situations i cannot handle well...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . 1 . . .
$$ - . . 5 . 3 . .
$$ - . . 6 2 4 . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 7 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

Author:  skydyr [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to continue?

marvin wrote:
I had this feeling that b is heavy here but I dont know?
How b continue after this? These kind of situations i cannot handle well...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . 1 . . .
$$ - . . 5 . 3 . .
$$ - . . 6 2 4 . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 7 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . 1 . . .
$$ - . . 5 . 3 a .
$$ - . . 6 2 4 . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 7 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

As Uberdude said, white owed a move around A, so if he didn't take it, that's a good place for black to start. It opens up the cut above 2 and should either take part of the corner for black or seal white in while black takes the top. Either way, white will also owe a move with 7 to avoid being counter-pincered, I think.

Author:  Shaddy [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to continue?

Double-hane works, I think.

Author:  SmoothOper [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to continue?

Uberdude wrote:

and then 3 is silly compared to this joseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 5 . 7 . .
$$ - . . 4 1 . . .
$$ - . . 6 . . 3 .
$$ - . . . 2 . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 8 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]


It's not a one-way street though, white can try 5 at 6 depending on the ladder.



I see these sometimes(against my distant low approach, and kakari) too, they seem silly to me but I also don't really have a great follow up, since a pincer would be severe.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . 1 . . .
$$ - . . . . 3 . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 2 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . 1 . . .
$$ - . . . . 3 . .
$$ - . . 2 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

Author:  Magicwand [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to continue?

marvin wrote:
I had this feeling that b is heavy here but I dont know?
How b continue after this? These kind of situations i cannot handle well...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . 1 . . .
$$ - . . 5 . 3 . .
$$ - . . 6 2 4 . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 7 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

IMO black is thick not heavy.
it is heavy if one can attack it easily.
black group not easily attacked in this shape.
if there is white influence then you can say it is heavy...but having only above info...it is thick.

Author:  marvin [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to continue?

thanks for replys. Now I have a better idea how to continue and how to evaluate position like this :)
will try to change "I need a base" to "i need a base if opponent is strong" or sth like that.
Will see what will happen in the games... But i guess even more fighting:)
And in this particular position i will probably choose 33 variation

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