Life In 19x19 :: I want to become 1D

i want all, even if i kill a big group i want to kill an other and i often loose game with that.

If it's free, always good to take !

Hi everyone,

I'm actually 3k, soon 2k on kgs, i have time to study go ( around 2/3h per day) and i want a training to become 1D asap !

What is the best way for me ? I think this : study pro games ( Katao Masao for killing and Lee Changho for invasion and reduction ) after do some tsumego and study joseki/fuseki.

Thanks for you help

I think my wickness are the direction to play and to leave to many weak group.

Read the article The Marginal Advantage by Day9. While written partially from a game development perspective, I think reading this article improved not just my Go but my ability in many competitive games I've played.

Yes, i often counting in my game, spend lot of time to this, but i took so many risk when i kill group, for exemple, my last game in the french tournament, i kill a big group i have an advantage around 20pt but i let my opponnet kill me a corner and he win 2.5 pt

That is good advice for winning games. I am not so sure how it is for learning to play. I now play a miai-ish style, which is very much like the Marginal Advantage approach. Whichever alternative you take, I take the other, and I am still happy.

But I started out trying to kill everything. If I had started out trying to take a small advantage and leave miai, I doubt if I would have developed my attacking skills.

[...] If I had started out trying to take a small advantage and leave miai, I doubt if I would have developed my attacking skills. [...]

Author:	jyka [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:07 am ]
Post subject:	I want to become 1D
Hi everyone, I'm actually 3k, soon 2k on kgs, i have time to study go ( around 2/3h per day) and i want a training to become 1D asap ! What is the best way for me ? I think this : study pro games ( Katao Masao for killing and Lee Changho for invasion and reduction ) after do some tsumego and study joseki/fuseki. Thanks for you help

Author:	Actorios [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
Hi, That's a very very typical desire amongst go players... I wish there was a one-way suits all path to get there... I guess you'll be recommended to do regular Tsumegos and Tesujis, to get your games reviewed... From common knowledge, reviewing pro games may not be the most efficient way to get there but it's important to do things you enjoy and can sustain. You may look for some lessons via Skype with some pros or high level amateurs for more ad hoc pieces of advice.

Author:	jyka [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
i want to took lesson with pro, but mone is not here

Author:	Actorios [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
That's the problem: when you're young, you have time but not the money... When you're a bit older, it's often the opposite... You may try some group lessons to shave some costs or consider the guo Juan lectures... On a free level, you can try viewing the battousai videos on YouTube... Obviously, it's not the same as getting personal pieces of advice. It's hard to get free teaching after you reach some level... Are you French?

Author:	Actorios [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
Oh, I forgot, you should absolutely join the Go Teaching Ladder... It's limited but it's really good stuff...

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

I want to become 1D http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8185	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Toge [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
Study the topics where you feel you're weakest to progress quickly. Beginner is weak at everything, so whatever instruction will cause rapid progress. The stronger you become, the less weakness there is. Systematic and comprehensive covering of topics, like how pros train, is the way to become really strong. I'll just put some examples here: * Are you able to effortlessly read ladders and implement ladder breakers to strategy? * Do you routinely count points during game? * Do you understand the principle of probing plays and when to probe? * Are you able to switch between attacking and defending appropriately? * Do you know how to take advantage of opponent's bad shape? * Are you equally comfortable playing with moyo and playing against moyo?

Author:	jyka [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
I think my wickness are the direction to play and to leave to many weak group. i want all, even if i kill a big group i want to kill an other and i often loose game with that. I have an other question about kgs teacher, what is the difference beetwwen a lesson by vic1000 and 6d amateur ( like slendy, cornel ... )

Author:	EdLee [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:01 am ]
Post subject:
jyka wrote: i want all, even if i kill a big group i want to kill an other and i often loose game with that. It's good you have identified this as one weakness -- so have you then considered to count after your big kill and re-access the board to see if you need to kill more (and risk losing if you're already ahead) ?

Author:	jyka [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
Yes, i often counting in my game, spend lot of time to this, but i took so many risk when i kill group, for exemple, my last game in the french tournament, i kill a big group i have an advantage around 20pt but i let my opponnet kill me a corner and he win 2.5 pt

Author:	Dusk Eagle [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
Read the article The Marginal Advantage by Day9. While written partially from a game development perspective, I think reading this article improved not just my Go but my ability in many competitive games I've played.

Author:	Magicwand [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
i shared my experience of becoming 1D in six month. i always thought that it was due to reading professional comments on their games. i just realized that i played many many games against strong (5d+) players. that seems to be one of the reason why i improved faster than others. if you are intrest in playing Malkovich game with me let me know..

Author:	jyka [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
If it's free, always good to take !

Author:	Magicwand [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
jyka wrote: If it's free, always good to take ! nothing is free. i will cost your pain and suffering... set up and invite me. i really dont care how many stones.. whatever is comfortable for you is fine.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
jyka wrote: Hi everyone, I'm actually 3k, soon 2k on kgs, i have time to study go ( around 2/3h per day) and i want a training to become 1D asap ! What is the best way for me ? I think this : study pro games ( Katao Masao for killing and Lee Changho for invasion and reduction ) after do some tsumego and study joseki/fuseki. Thanks for you help One size does not fit all. How long have you been playing? What has been your study regime so far? You can almost make this recommendation: Whatever you have been doing, do something else. The law of diminishing returns is quite general. Your question suggests a dissatisfaction with what you are currently doing. Studying other things, or studying in a different way could easily produce rapid results. Quote: I think my wickness are the direction to play and to leave to many weak group. A good pro to study, both for direction of play and not leaving too many weak groups, is Fujisawa Hideyuki (Shuko). For shinogi Sakata is good. Also Cho Chikun. Good luck!

Author:	logan [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
Bill Spight wrote: [...] If I had started out trying to take a small advantage and leave miai, I doubt if I would have developed my attacking skills. [...] I think you still would have developed your attacking skills for a couple of reasons. First, there are players who will force a fight and situations that require fighting, so we will develop these skills simply by playing different people. Second, the study of tesuji and L&D problems (and other types of problems) develop the kind of shape & pattern understanding that affects attacking strength. On a different note, new players -- who have just learned the rules and are playing their first games -- cannot possible know what miai or 'making small exchanges to win' means in the context of go. What invariably happens is that they play some person and lose by a large margin. They get some advice on expanding their stones or figure it out themselves and eventually work to apply it. They work by themselves for awhile rubber-banding between underplays and overplays. Only after having gone through this process can they (begin to) understand the application of miai and marginal/incremental advantages to the context of go. In other words, this is why it would not have been possible to have begun go trying to take small advantages and leave miai, because a new player could not have understood these ideas in order to have applied them. Thus, the concern of not having been able to develop attacking skills is also mitigated, in some small way, by this. Also, when new players learn the rules of two-eyes they also inevitably experiment with attacking the opponents'.

Author:	snorri [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
If you've never properly studied endgame it is entirely possible 2 stones are to be found there. I usually say: first, improve your reading by 2 stones. Then, if that does not result in being 2 stones stronger, ask a pro for advice on your serious games. But if it does work, repeat. Edit: what I didn't say is that if you can't improve your reading by 2 stones, you may be toast...

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Author:	Bill Spight [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
Dusk Eagle wrote: Read the article The Marginal Advantage by Day9. While written partially from a game development perspective, I think reading this article improved not just my Go but my ability in many competitive games I've played. That is good advice for winning games. I am not so sure how it is for learning to play. I now play a miai-ish style, which is very much like the Marginal Advantage approach. Whichever alternative you take, I take the other, and I am still happy. But I started out trying to kill everything. If I had started out trying to take a small advantage and leave miai, I doubt if I would have developed my attacking skills. Ben Hogan gave similar advice about golf. Start off trying to knock the hell out of the ball. If you start off trying to develop a smooth swing, you will never develop your power. Reti gave similar advice for chess. Start out playing gambits and open, attacking games. If you start out trying to eke out and maintain a small positional advantage, you will be at a loss when the game opens up.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
jyka wrote: Yes, i often counting in my game, spend lot of time to this, but i took so many risk when i kill group, for exemple, my last game in the french tournament, i kill a big group i have an advantage around 20pt but i let my opponnet kill me a corner and he win 2.5 pt Try counting only 3-4 times during a game.

Author:	Unusedname [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
Dusk Eagle wrote: Read the article The Marginal Advantage by Day9. While written partially from a game development perspective, I think reading this article improved not just my Go but my ability in many competitive games I've played. Bill Spight wrote: That is good advice for winning games. I am not so sure how it is for learning to play. I now play a miai-ish style, which is very much like the Marginal Advantage approach. Whichever alternative you take, I take the other, and I am still happy. But I started out trying to kill everything. If I had started out trying to take a small advantage and leave miai, I doubt if I would have developed my attacking skills. This is very interesting actually. I also thought going for the biggest points was always the best strategy. But a "miai-ish" style sounds very cool. The concept in the link about taking 4 stones instead of 15 when you know your opponent can only take 3. I never thought of thinking this way. Thanks for the link.

Author:	Magicwand [ Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to become 1D
intresting to note that when Lee Changho played his best game he used same idea of miai and maintaine balance. initally I was amazed on how he can win so many games with such non fighting style. although not famous as lee changho, Cho hanseung also has similar style and very successful. they both faced many many fighting styled professionals but still managed to find a way to balance the game and win.