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Go by example: Defer capture until forced. Why is this safe? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9604 |
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Author: | Shawn Ligocki [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Go by example: Defer capture until forced. Why is this safe? |
I just started reading "Go by example: Correcting common mistakes in double digit kyu play" by Neil Moffatt and I ran into an example that doesn't make sense to me. It's in the section "Defer capture until forced!". Here's the setup: White has made a simple mistake, trying to save her stones with ![]() The question is where should black play next? The book explains that this is a common mistake for black: Which allows white to live in the corner. Instead black should be ignore the already dead white group and attack the corner: To capture the triangled stones and the entire corner. But I don't understand how this is safe for black. It looks like this will allow white to escape: At this point black cannot save his 2 triangled stones and it looks like white can escape. Shouldn't black have atari-ed the large group to avoid this? Or is there some better play for black? Reason that this escape plan doesn't succeed? After looking at this for a bit I guess black could play like this: But at this point it looks like white 12 (or even a) could connect up to the right side group: |
Author: | Shawn Ligocki [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Go by example: Defer capture until forced. Why is this s |
I guess black could play the ko instead: but then even if black wins the ko, he'll have to give up threat to white, maybe the corner even? For example, I could see either: or Maybe this is better for black? But not super clear. |
Author: | Uberdude [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Go by example: Defer capture until forced. Why is this s |
You are correct it's not a clear kill of the whole group and requires some more reading. Well done for considering the cut, does the author not? I guess that's the problem when a 5 kyu writes a book using examples from 25 kyus. To answer the question try black 7 as atari to the right of 6 and then defend the cut on the two stones when white captures. White is then locally dead so if black is strong enough in the centre, which seems to be the case but you need to show more of the board to be sure, it's dead. |
Author: | wineandgolover [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:20 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Go by example: Defer capture until forced. Why is this s |
White currently has only a half eye to the left of 9, because black can throw in to deny it. After 11 can he either make two eyes, connect to the right, or get out to the center? |
Author: | topazg [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Go by example: Defer capture until forced. Why is this s |
This I think is the general gist of Uberdude's point |
Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Go by example: Defer capture until forced. Why is this s |
This is a better way to play: Now, white can't make two eyes in the corner. Here's an example of a failure for white: Of course, white can try to break into the center, but all black has to do is save the one stone and black is so strong on the outside that white has no chance to break out or make eyes. |
Author: | shapenaji [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Go by example: Defer capture until forced. Why is this s |
wineandgolover wrote: White currently has only a half eye to the left of 9, because black can throw in to deny it. After 11 can he either make two eyes, connect to the right, or get out to the center? So, this sequence is better, I think, than the one Uberdude envisioned, but you need to include how to respond to this: |
Author: | EdLee [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Quote: Well done for considering the cut, does the author not? This. I guess that's the problem when a 5 kyu writes a book using examples from 25 kyus. ![]() |
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