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5th Huanglongshi Cup
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11528		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  trout [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  5th Huanglongshi Cup
1st meet;3/1/15-3/7/15
2nd meet;4/5/15-4/11/15

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Oh Jungah, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin
China: Wang Chenxing, Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Li He, Cao Youyin
Japan:Xie Yimin, Okuda Aya, Fujisawa Rina, Gabe Natsuki, Hoshiai Shio

Winning team gets 450,000 yuan.
Author:  trout [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
3/1/15 - 1st game;


Oh Jungah defeated Okuda Aya by resign.

Image


Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Oh Jungah, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin
China: Wang Chenxing, Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Li He, Cao Youyin
Japan:Xie Yimin, Fujisawa Rina, Gabe Natsuki, Hoshiai Shio,
Okuda Aya

Bold case - remaining players
Author:  trout [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
3/2/15 - 2nd game;

Oh Jungah defeated Li He by resign.
Image

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Oh Jungah, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin
China: Wang Chenxing, Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Li He
Japan:Xie Yimin, Fujisawa Rina, Gabe Natsuki, Hoshiai Shio,
Okuda Aya

Bold case - remaining players
Author:  trout [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
3/3/15 - 3rd game;

Oh Jungah defeated Kibe Natsuki by resign.

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Oh Jungah, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin
China: Wang Chenxing, Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Li He
Japan:Xie Yimin, Fujisawa Rina, Hoshiai Shio, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki

Bold case - remaining players
Author:  oren [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
Slight correction. Her name should be "Kibe Natsuki"
Author:  trout [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
3/4/15 - 4th game;

Oh Jungah defeated Wang Chenxing by resign.

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Oh Jungah, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin
China: Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Li He, Wang Chenxing
Japan:Xie Yimin, Fujisawa Rina, Hoshiai Shio, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki

Bold case - remaining players
Author:  trout [ Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
3/5/15 - 5th game;

Oh Jungah defeated Fujisawa Lina by resign.
** Oh has won 5 games so far.....
Image


Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Oh Jungah, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin
China: Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Li He, Wang Chenxing
Japan:Xie Yimin, Hoshiai Shio, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki, Fujisawa Rina

Bold case - remaining players
Author:  Mef [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
trout wrote:
Oh Jungah...



Very Impressive! She might be taking the "team" aspect out of this tournament (=
Author:  trout [ Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
3/6/15 - 6th game;

Song Ronghui defeated Oh Jungah by 2.5.
Image

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin, Oh Jungah
China: Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Li He, Wang Chenxing
Japan:Xie Yimin, Hoshiai Shio, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki, Fujisawa Rina

Bold = remaining players
Author:  trout [ Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
3/7/15 - 7th game;

Song Ronghui defeated Hoshiai Shioh by resign.

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin, Oh Jungah
China: Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Li He, Wang Chenxing
Japan:Xie Yimin, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki, Fujisawa Rina, Hoshiai Shio

Bold = remaining players

-End of 1st meet-

See you in 2nd meet;4/5/15-4/11/15
Author:  trout [ Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
4/5/15 - 8th game;

Image
Song Ronghui defeated Oh Yoojin by resign.

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin, Oh Jungah
China: Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Li He, Wang Chenxing
Japan:Xie Yimin, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki, Fujisawa Rina, Hoshiai Shio

Bold = remaining players
Author:  trout [ Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
4/6/15 - 8th game;

Image
Song Ronghui defeated Xie Yimin by resign.

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin, Oh Jungah
China: Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Li He, Wang Chenxing
Japan:Xie Yimin, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki, Fujisawa Rina, Hoshiai Shio

Bold = remaining players
Author:  trout [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
4/7/15 - 8th game;

Image
Song Ronghui defeated Kim Chaeyoung by 2.5.
Ms Song has won 5 games.
Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin, Oh Jungah
China: Song Ronghui, Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Li He, Wang Chenxing
Japan:Xie Yimin, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki, Fujisawa Rina, Hoshiai Shio

Bold = remaining players
Author:  wineandgolover [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
Thanks for the updates, trout.

It is fascinating that only two players have a win so far and the competition might end after two or three more games.
Author:  trout [ Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
4/8/15 - 8th game;

Image
Choi Jeong defeated Song Ronghui by resign.

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin, Oh Jungah
China:Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Song Ronghui, Li He, Wang Chenxing
Japan:Xie Yimin, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki, Fujisawa Rina, Hoshiai Shio

Bold = remaining players
Author:  trout [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
4/9/15 - 8th game;

Choi Jeong defeated Cao Youyin by resign.

Players;
Korea:Kim Hyemin, Choi Jeong, Kim Chaeyoung, Oh Yoojin, Oh Jungah
China:Yu Zhiying, Cao Youyin, Song Ronghui, Li He, Wang Chenxing
Japan:Xie Yimin, Okuda Aya, Kibe Natsuki, Fujisawa Rina, Hoshiai Shio

Bold = remaining players
Author:  John Fairbairn [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
A question for game theory specialists:

In win & continue team events like this, is it best to keep your best player as the last player up as a sort of "iron goalkeeper" (a phrase used of Nie Weiping and Yi Ch'ang-ho in such events), as seems to be the general case.

I would have thought there was a case for keeping the weakest player till the end, on the assumption he/she may not even be needed.
Author:  wineandgolover [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
John Fairbairn wrote:
A question for game theory specialists:

In win & continue team events like this, is it best to keep your best player as the last player up as a sort of "iron goalkeeper" (a phrase used of Nie Weiping and Yi Ch'ang-ho in such events), as seems to be the general case.

I would have thought there was a case for keeping the weakest player till the end, on the assumption he/she may not even be needed.

The same question arises in penalty kicks in soccer, though the dynamics are different. In that sport, if you save your best kicker for late, you might have already lost before they get a chance.

At least with win and continue tourneys, one is assured all of your players will get a shot before elimination.

The psychology of assigning an iron goalkeeper versus striving for a crushing sweep is interesting. Maybe there is less pressure early, so less-proven players might perform better then than later.
Author:  Uberdude [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
If we take a simple case of two teams of 3, one of three middling strength players (call them 5p) and another of one middle (5p), one strong (9p) and one weak (1p) then assuming 5p vs 5p is 50:50 and 9p vs 5p is the same as 5p vs 1p, for example 70:30, then whether the mixed team goes in increasing or decreasing order of strength doesn't actually change the overall probability of win (it's 59.7% for the mixed team with those numbers). Probably there is some neat argument to show that but I just crunched the numbers as my brain has atrophied from years of disuse ;-) What would happen with two mixed teams in either same or opposite order I don't know but my gut feeling is it would similarly have the same probability. Of course in real life probabilities of wins are not independent, some players are particularly good or weak against others etc so it all gets rather complex.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 5th Huanglongshi Cup
Simple example: 2 player teams, where player A beats each opponent with probability a and player B beats each opponent with probability b. Player A is the first player.

The team wins the match if Player A beats both opponents, with probability, a*a, or if Player A loses the second game and player B wins the next game, with probability, a*(1-a)*b, or if Player A loses the first game and Player B wins both games, with probability, (1-a)*b*b. The total probability of winning is a*a*(1-b) + a*b + b*b*(1-a). Obviously, it does not matter which player plays first.

OTOH, there are physical and psychological questions to consider. The probability of winning a game may depend upon circumstances. Suppose that it goes down with physical fatigue. Then you want to start with the most physically fit player, who may well be younger and less skilled, because the less fit player will probably play fewer games. Suppose that it goes down with pressure. If Player A loses, then Player B will have the pressure of winning both games. Usually the better player will stand up better under pressure. Again, this argues for starting with the less skilled player. Also, there is the question of the future of the team. If the first player is less skilled, then if he wins the match by himself, it will provide a psychological boost which may help him to advance in the future. It may also lower the confidence of the other team, since the winning team beat them "with one hand tied behind our back".
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