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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #21 Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:46 am 
Gosei

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2nd game;
Yang Dingxin defeated Won Seongjin by resign.
3rd game;
Yarg Dingxin vs Yamashita Keigo

Players:
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan, Lee Donghoon, Kim Jiseok , Won Seongjin
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta. Yamashita Keigo, Ichiriki Ryo, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan), Murakawa Daisuke
Bold case - Remaining players

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #22 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:06 am 
Judan

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Yang Dingxin beat Yamashita Keigo by 3.5. The result wasn't surprising given their difference in rating, but Yamashita was actually decently ahead for a while according to bots but lost it (easier to make territory in edges).

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #23 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:14 am 
Gosei

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3rd game;
Yang Dingxin defeated Yamashita Keigo by 3.5.
4th game;
Yang Dingxin vs Kim Jiseok


Players:
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan, Lee Donghoon, Kim Jiseok , Won Seongjin
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta, Ichiriki Ryo, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan), Murakawa Daisuke. Yamashita Keigo
Bold case - Remaining players

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #24 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:27 am 
Tengen

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If swapping two adjacent players never changes the probability, then any series of swaps doesn't change the probability, and any reordering of players can be achieved by some series of swaps of adjacent players (that's because permutations are an algebraic group generated by transpositions). So you'd just have to look at the ELO formula and see whether it satisfies the first claim.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #25 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:26 am 
Gosei
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hyperpape

I tried that already but it doesn't look easy.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #26 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:06 pm 
Judan

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Yang beat Kim both times they played recently (Samsung cup and chinese league).

Yang won again, killed a big group.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #27 Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:11 am 
Gosei

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4th game;
Yang Dingxin defeated Kim Jiseok by resign.


Players:
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan, Lee Donghoon , Won Seongjin, Kim Jiseok
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta, Ichiriki Ryo, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan), Murakawa Daisuke. Yamashita Keigo
Bold case - Remaining players

2nd round:
11/22 - 5th game
11/23 - 6th game
11/24 - 7th game
11/25 - 8th game
11/26 - 9th game

3rd round:
2/17 - 10th game
2/18 - 11th game
2/19 - 12th game
2/20 - 13th game
2/21 - 14th game

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #28 Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:32 pm 
Gosei

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5th game;
Yang Dingxin vs Ichiriki Ryo


Players:
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan, Lee Donghoon , Won Seongjin, Kim Jiseok
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta, Ichiriki Ryo, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan), Murakawa Daisuke. Yamashita Keigo
Bold case - Remaining players


This post by trout was liked by: Uberdude
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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #29 Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:21 am 
Gosei

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5th game;
Yang Dingxin defeated Ichiriki Ryo by resign.


Players:
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan, Lee Donghoon , Won Seongjin, Kim Jiseok
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan), Murakawa Daisuke. Yamashita Keigo, Ichiriki Ryo
Bold case - Remaining players

6th game;
Yang Dingxin vs Lee Donghoon

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #30 Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:18 am 
Judan

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Lee got totally outmanoeuvred by Yang, it almost felt like the sort of game where an amateur dan could get scolded by a teacher for playing a superficial imitation of AI style, while the opponent displayed a much deeper understanding. (I wrote this around move 100 because I'm that confident there won't be a reversal).

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #31 Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:46 am 
Gosei

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6th game;
Yang Dingxin defeated Lee Donghoon by 1.5.

Players:
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan , Won Seongjin, Kim Jiseok, Lee Donghoon
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan), Murakawa Daisuke. Yamashita Keigo, Ichiriki Ryo
Bold case - Remaining players

7th game;
Yang Dingxin vs Kyo Kagen(Xu Jiayuan)

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #32 Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:14 am 
Judan

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Are these games in Korea? Because on 22nd Kyo beat Iyama in a Tengen title match game in Japan so I hope he can recover from travels. The Tengen game was in Kyushu so at least just a short hop across the sea.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #33 Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:54 pm 
Gosei

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Uberdude wrote:
Are these games in Korea? Because on 22nd Kyo beat Iyama in a Tengen title match game in Japan so I hope he can recover from travels. The Tengen game was in Kyushu so at least just a short hop across the sea.


Yes, these games are played in Pusan(southernmost port city of Korean Peninsula). It is short jump from Japan to Korea.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #34 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:08 am 
Gosei

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7th game;
Yang Dingxin defeated Kyo Kagen(Xu Jiayuan) by resign.

Players:
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan , Won Seongjin, Kim Jiseok, Lee Donghoon
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan), Murakawa Daisuke. Yamashita Keigo, Ichiriki Ryo
Bold case - Remaining players

8th game;
Yang Dingxin vs Shin Jinseo

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #35 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:34 am 
Oza
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Uberdude wrote:
Lee got totally outmanoeuvred by Yang, it almost felt like the sort of game where an amateur dan could get scolded by a teacher for playing a superficial imitation of AI style, while the opponent displayed a much deeper understanding. (I wrote this around move 100 because I'm that confident there won't be a reversal).

Were you surprised by the final margin of only 1.5 points?

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #36 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:55 am 
Judan

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ez4u wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
Lee got totally outmanoeuvred by Yang, it almost felt like the sort of game where an amateur dan could get scolded by a teacher for playing a superficial imitation of AI style, while the opponent displayed a much deeper understanding. (I wrote this around move 100 because I'm that confident there won't be a reversal).

Were you surprised by the final margin of only 1.5 points?


Somewhat, in that it is not reflective of how much Yang was leading in the middlegame (about 10 points), but humans as well as bots lose points if they are still sure to win. But if you lose too many you look dumb!

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #37 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:38 am 
Honinbo

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Uberdude wrote:
humans as well as bots lose points if they are still sure to win. But if you lose too many you look dumb!


R Lee wrote:
Look dumb. Are dumb!

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #38 Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:39 pm 
Judan

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I think Shin has good chances to end Yang's run: although he lost their first 5 games he is younger and Shin has won the last 2 since 2018.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #39 Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:39 am 
Gosei

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8th game;
Yang Dingxin defeated Shin Jinseo by resign.

Players:
Korea: Park Junghwan, Shin Jinseo, Won Seongjin, Kim Jiseok, Lee Donghoon
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta Murakawa Daisuke. Yamashita Keigo, Ichiriki Ryo, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan)
Bold case - Remaining players

9th game;
Yang Dingxin vs Iyama Yuuta

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #40 Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:02 am 
Judan

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These long win streaks, usually by a Chinese player, are the new normal for the Nongshim cup:
- 18th (2016-17): Fan Tingyu (C) won 7 in a row, Park Junghwan (K) stopped him and beat Iyama (J) but then lost to Fan Yunruo so China won.
- 19th (2017-18): Shin Minjun (K) won 6 in a row, then Dang Yifei (C) got 5 and Kim Jiseok won for Korea.
-20th (2018-19): Fan Tingyu (C) again got 7 in a row, again Park stopped him and beat Iyama and then Dang won it for China.
- 21st (2019-20): Yang Dingxin (C) got 7 in a row so far, will likely beat Iyama, maybe Park will then stop him, but unlikely he can plough through the rest of the ~3600 Chinese team.

Edit: fixed typo

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