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Lee Changho no longer holds any titles
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3205		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  hyperpape [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Lee Changho no longer holds any titles
Today, Choi Cheolhan won the Kuksu title from Lee Changho by a score of 3-1, taking Lee's last title from him. That was the last title that Lee Changho held*, and this is the first time since 1990 that he has not held a title.

Lee is still good enough to win titles, but it's still remarkable to see the end of a 20 year streak. We also don't know whether his performance this past year was a passing slump, or if it will stick.

*He won last year's KBS cup, and the finals are being played between Park Junghwan and Baek Hongsuk next week. So you can say he's a titleholder for the next week. But the result is the same either way.
Author:  logan [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lee Changho no longer holds any titles
I was keeping a close eye on this title match series for this reason. I felt that it may be a memorable & significant point in baduk history. This and next year will reveal further.
Author:  John Fairbairn [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lee Changho no longer holds any titles
Quote:
and this is the first time since 1990 that he has not held a title.


He won the 8th KBS in 1989.
Author:  hyperpape [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lee Changho no longer holds any titles
Thanks for the information.

Is there some sort of issue with dating the titles? None of Sensei's, Gobase or Mindzine show him winning in 1989 (http://www.msoworld.com/mindzine/news/o ... bssub.html), but do show him winning the 8th edition in 1988.
Author:  Horibe [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lee Changho no longer holds any titles
John Fairbairn wrote:
Quote:
and this is the first time since 1990 that he has not held a title.


He won the 8th KBS in 1989.


the Go Almanac says the winner of the KBS TV Lightning in 1989 was Cho Hun-hyeon over Seo Neung-uk and Yi did not win until 1991.
Is this a different event or is the almanac wrong?
Author:  TMark [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lee Changho no longer holds any titles
It is probably more a matter of interpreting the date of the title; some events start in one year with the title match held early in the following year. The GoGoD timetable shows the first event in 1980 and the second in 1983. The Almanac starts in 1980 with the second in 1982, so we are just out of sync in our definitions.

Best wishes.
Author:  John Fairbairn [ Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lee Changho no longer holds any titles
Quote:
the Go Almanac says the winner of the KBS TV Lightning in 1989 was Cho Hun-hyeon over Seo Neung-uk and Yi did not win until 1991.
Is this a different event or is the almanac wrong?


The dates of the two games of the 8th Final were 25 July 1989 and 8 August 1989 (Cho-Seo played in July 1988). You can't get much more "in" 1989 than that. As T Mark said, there is room for imterpretation when events start one year and finish the next (and this is a very common occurrence). So you could say Yi Ch'ang-ho won the 1988 KBS Cup, but you can't say he won it in 1988. Whichever way you slice it, Yi was a titlewinner and title holder in 1989.

You will, incidentally, find that the Oriental yearbooks occasionally change the basis of the numbering of the terms, so there is no uniformity there. In the GoGoD tournament tables we try to follow the principle of using the date of the final as the main criterion, but there are still hiccups. You get some titlematches that span the year's end. Occasionally the match is a whitewash and finishes in December. In other years it drags out till January or February. We have made a decision to use the drawn out date.

Other problems include the fact that some events (in Japan) last morer than a year. Using the starting year as a criterion can put you two years out compared with the final. Also, some events are re-organised and given a new starting time, so that you can have gaps of a year in the annual list, or two events in the same year. Then there are events, like the Women's Kisei, which are played and completed in one year, but the games are not officially released to the public till the following year.

By the way, if you do want to take a different stance from us and use the starting time of an event, Yi was still a winner in 1989 as he won the 29th Ch'oegowi which started that year (the title match also styarted in 1989 but finished in February 1990).
Author:  hyperpape [ Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lee Changho no longer holds any titles
Lee Changho has made the finals of the Maxim Cup, where he will compete with Park Yeonghun. Perhaps he will not go too long without a title.
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