Life In 19x19 :: Replaying Games

Not only can strong players replay their own games from start to finish, but at the 2008 US Go Congress I saw Takemiya Masaki (9 Dan) replay a game he hadn’t even seen yet.

Takemiya was late to the commentary session of the US Open finals and replayed the opening of the game just from looking at the mid-game board position. To the delight of the crowd he got every move on the board correct, making comments all the way, until he was caught up with the most current move. Truly the ways of pros are mysterious.

I remember having read that Lee ChangHo had difficulties in remembering games.

As to my concern, I tried remembering some commented games, and to my surprise, I succeeded in remembering 200 moves quite easily. Ko fights are bothering me though...

I'm not there yet but I' m trying

I had to train my way up starting with 9x9 games. It is very helpful when teaching beginners if you're able to reply the game and point out mistakes. Of course when the players get better and switch to larger boards your training suddenly intensifies.

I can now replay any 9x9 game in any condition and any 13x13 game when I haven't drunk too much.
I'm only recently trying myself on 19x19 and it has to be a serious game (20+ min) against an opponent of equal strength. I also have to replay the game as soon as I'm finished at least once otherwise I can't remember it longer than 1 hour

Oddly enough, I can replay our Malkovich with ease. I usually play it out on an actual board and whatnot and then decide on a move.

What is this about Lee ChangHo couldn't replay his own games? It sounds like it happened once, or he said it once, and that it's become a popular anecdote.

I would be enormously surprised if he really can't remember his games...

Magicwand that makes sense. I guess as you get stronger, you play less random moves and it makes it easier to remember.

I don't have the ability yet at all, really. -_- I think it's amazing people can do stuff like that.

I read somewhere that Lee couldn't replay his own game when he was Cho HoonHyun's student.

Five years ago I played my first teaching game (3-stones) with Sakai Maki 8p

Author:	hailthorn011 [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Replaying Games
Okay, so I know ahead of time this is likely an idiotic question that will get me laughed at, but it's something I've been curious about lately. Can Pros (strong amateurs?) really replay their own games from start to finish? Hikaru no Go put this into my head awhile back (sometime last year) but I've finally decided to ask. Make fun of me if you want, but this is a legitimate question.

Author:	yoyoma [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
Yes, and I would say a majority of amateur dan players can as well. At a review session a pro made a half-joke when I came to the demo board with my laptop to show my game. He said "You are 3 dan you should be able to remember the game!"

Author:	amnal [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
I don't think I know any dan players who wouldn't be able to get at least to the mid endgame without much difficulty. Most of them, including myself, have little difficulty remembering an entire game for at least a day or so afterwards. It is a valuable and helpful skill! The hardest part is the first 4 moves.

Author:	Magicwand [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
i was able to do that when i was 10k. it is not hard if you dont try to memorize the move but think about why you played that move.

Author:	Redbeard [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
Not only can strong players replay their own games from start to finish, but at the 2008 US Go Congress I saw Takemiya Masaki (9 Dan) replay a game *he hadn’t even seen yet*. Takemiya was late to the commentary session of the US Open finals and replayed the opening of the game just from looking at the mid-game board position. To the delight of the crowd he got every move on the board correct, making comments all the way, until he was caught up with the most current move. Truly the ways of pros are mysterious.

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Replaying Games http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3850	Page 1 of 2

Author:	hailthorn011 [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
Magicwand that makes sense. I guess as you get stronger, you play less random moves and it makes it easier to remember. I don't have the ability yet at all, really. -_- I think it's amazing people can do stuff like that.

Author:	Tryphon [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
I remember having read that Lee ChangHo had difficulties in remembering games. As to my concern, I tried remembering some commented games, and to my surprise, I succeeded in remembering 200 moves quite easily. Ko fights are bothering me though...

Author:	Mnemonic [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
I'm not there yet but I' m trying I had to train my way up starting with 9x9 games. It is very helpful when teaching beginners if you're able to reply the game and point out mistakes. Of course when the players get better and switch to larger boards your training suddenly intensifies. I can now replay any 9x9 game in any condition and any 13x13 game when I haven't drunk too much. I'm only recently trying myself on 19x19 and it has to be a serious game (20+ min) against an opponent of equal strength. I also have to replay the game as soon as I'm finished at least once otherwise I can't remember it longer than 1 hour

Author:	hailthorn011 [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
Tryphon wrote: I remember having read that Lee ChangHo had difficulties in remembering games. As to my concern, I tried remembering some commented games, and to my surprise, I succeeded in remembering 200 moves quite easily. Ko fights are bothering me though... Oddly enough, I can replay our Malkovich with ease. I usually play it out on an actual board and whatnot and then decide on a move.

Author:	hailthorn011 [ Thu May 12, 2011 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
Mnemonic wrote: I'm not there yet but I' m trying I had to train my way up starting with 9x9 games. It is very helpful when teaching beginners if you're able to reply the game and point out mistakes. Of course when the players get better and switch to larger boards your training suddenly intensifies. I can now replay any 9x9 game in any condition and any 13x13 game when I haven't drunk too much. I'm only recently trying myself on 19x19 and it has to be a serious game (20+ min) against an opponent of equal strength. I also have to replay the game as soon as I'm finished at least once otherwise I can't remember it longer than 1 hour I'm not sure I could ever replay a game even after playing it all the way through. It might have something to do with my ADHD. Or maybe I just lack the ability. I'm currently trying to memorize professional games, so maybe that will be a jump start to being able to replay my own games.

Author:	Tryphon [ Thu May 12, 2011 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
hailthorn011 wrote: Oddly enough, I can replay our Malkovich with ease. I usually play it out on an actual board and whatnot and then decide on a move. It is 16 moves long, for thetime being

Author:	trout [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
Replaying your own game is good. But if you cannot replay, don't worry about it. I think I heard that even Lee ChangHo couldn't replay his own game.

Author:	amnal [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
What is this about Lee ChangHo couldn't replay his own games? It sounds like it happened once, or he said it once, and that it's become a popular anecdote. I would be enormously surprised if he really can't remember his games...

Author:	hailthorn011 [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
amnal wrote: What is this about Lee ChangHo couldn't replay his own games? It sounds like it happened once, or he said it once, and that it's become a popular anecdote. I would be enormously surprised if he really can't remember his games... Same here. Lee Changho is awesome.

Author:	ez4u [ Fri May 13, 2011 6:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
Five years ago I played my first teaching game (3-stones) with Sakai Maki 8p at the Nihon Kiin. He treated me gently and only a last minute misjudgment in yose resulted in me losing by four points. One month later I met him again and he told me that he had been asked to write a magazine article on yose that week and had used the game we had played. I asked him if he had written down the game and he assured me that no, he had simply remembered it. He then proceeded to replay the game in front of me to show me what the article was about. It was just one of perhaps a dozen teaching games he had played on that Saturday a month earlier and of course he had all the normal activity of a professional in the succeeding month: professional games, professional study groups, other sessions of teaching games, etc. To this day I can not imagine how he does it For myself, I used to be able to remember some games fairly well at least one day later and write them down. This facility disappeared when I started to play frequently on-line in the mid-nineties and the sgf's were automatically emailed to me (classic "use it or lose it"?). Even after stopping on-line play, I have never "recovered" - too old or too lazy I guess!

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Author:	trout [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
I read somewhere that Lee couldn't replay his own game when he was Cho HoonHyun's student.

Author:	Dusk Eagle [ Thu May 12, 2011 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
hailthorn011 wrote: Magicwand that makes sense. I guess as you get stronger, you play less random moves and it makes it easier to remember. I don't have the ability yet at all, really. -_- I think it's amazing people can do stuff like that. I couldn't do it when I was 10k. But like you said, as you get stronger you understand your moves better and your assessments are less random, which is crucial to remembering any game you've played. I wouldn't worry about not being able to remember your games right now. Just focus on topics that will make you stronger and you will likely acquire the skill naturally.

Author:	TMark [ Fri May 13, 2011 12:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Replaying Games
trout wrote: I read somewhere that Lee couldn't replay his own game when he was Cho HoonHyun's student. The rumour has it that Cho was concerned that Yi could not replay the games (plural) he was playing in the insei study sessions. Cho had been taught the Japanese way and it was natural to him that a pro could remember his games. It may be that Yi was experimenting with the ideas that caused the "Korean spring". On a side note, I remember going to a one-day tournament here in Britain and I had my computer with me but I had no time during the day to record my games. When I got on the train back to London, I recorded at least the first 150 moves of three games from memory. It helps if you have set opening patterns. Best wishes.

Author:	EdLee [ Fri May 13, 2011 7:03 am ]
Post subject:
ez4u wrote: Five years ago I played my first teaching game (3-stones) with Sakai Maki 8p Dave, what was Sakai Maki's age at that time, do you happen to know?