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 Post subject: (non?) joseki question
Post #1 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:50 pm 
Dies with sente

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Rank: kgs 2d
I have a question regarding a recent game of mine where my opponent played a surprising move and I wasn't sure how to answer.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c normal beginning
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . 9 4 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Next w played 1 which I don't know about.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc deviation
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The cut felt natural and the following sequence emerged.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc continuation
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 2 . a . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O 4 O . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 6 b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I analyzed this for a while but couldn't find a better variation. Living in the corner is bad for black and there seems to be no way to capture either of whites stones. Blacks shape is a bit weird, maybe 8 should be somewhere else (a,b for example)?
On the plus side, this sequence made white's original pincer a very slow move and allowed me to make a shimari in the upper left. Is that enough for black?

One more variation: Blocking seems to be unsatisfactory, because after W3 the descent at a has no good corner follow-up except for some endgame (so w can ignore and take 6 for himself) and the following sequence favors white because of the 3-4 exchange.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc alternative?
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a 2 X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 3 X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #2 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:03 pm 
Honinbo
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Better if :b8: at :w9::
golem7 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 2 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O 4 O . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

B can do even better:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 0 X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 2 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 4 X O 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 9 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
B can decide about (a) later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | 1 X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


This post by EdLee was liked by: golem7
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 Post subject: Re: (non?) joseki question
Post #3 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:14 pm 
Dies with sente

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Rank: kgs 2d
ah, thanks. this looks nice, I didn't consider 6. Actually I'd be inclined to play a right away, feels so good ;)

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