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Offline logan
 Post subject: Black to Play
Post #1 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 Black to play
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , .
$$ | . O O X O . X . X . .
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

I would like to see how you all evaluate this, then I'll show the source solution. I think you'll find it quite humorous...
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Offline speedchase
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #2 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:18 pm 
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[quote="logan"]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 Black to play
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , .
$$ | 3 O O X O . X . X . .
$$ | . 1 2 O . O 4 5 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

this?
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Offline logan
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #3 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:43 pm 
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What about after the throw-in? Does White have any useful forcing moves?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 Black to play
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , .
$$ | 3 O O X O . X . X . .
$$ | 4 1 2 O . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #4 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 Black to play
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , .
$$ | 3 O O X O a X . X . .
$$ | 4 1 2 O . O 6 7 . . .
$$ | 5 . 9 . 8 . b . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 Black to play
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , .
$$ | 3 O O X O . X . X . .
$$ | 4 1 2 O . O 6 7 . . .
$$ | 5 . 8 . 9 . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

After w captures the four black stones and b throws in again, :b3: and the space above :b9: are miai.
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Offline logan
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #5 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Right!

There are a couple of possible tricks up White's sleeve, and miai key points & a sacrifice Black has to find.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 Solution 1, :b9: @ :w4:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ | 0 X X X O X . . . , .
$$ | 3 O O X O . X . X . .
$$ | 4 1 2 O . O . . . . .
$$ | 5 8 6 . 7 . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Cont. 1,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , .
$$ | 2 O O X O 4 X . X . .
$$ | 1 . O O 3 O 5 . . . .
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 Solution 2
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ | 9 X X X O X . . . , .
$$ | 3 O O X O . X . X . .
$$ | 4 1 2 O . O . . . . .
$$ | 5 0 7 8 6 . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Cont. 1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . .
$$ | X X X X O X . . . , .
$$ | X O O X O 4 X . X . .
$$ | 1 X O O . O 2 3 . . .
$$ | X O . O O . 5 . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


So let's see the book answer:
Image
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Offline Alguien
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #6 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:44 pm 
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:D

One of the reasons I don't do go problems from anything not interactive.
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #7 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:44 pm 
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Which book, if I may ask?
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Offline logan
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #8 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:47 pm 
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TIM82 wrote:
Which book, if I may ask?

Essential L&D Vol. 4
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Offline Shaddy
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #9 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:54 pm 
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If it's a 1-5d book, I don't see anything wrong with the book's answer. A 1-5d should be able to see all of those lines with only a little effort.
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Offline Alguien
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #10 Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:06 am 
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Shaddy wrote:
If it's a 1-5d book, I don't see anything wrong with the book's answer. A 1-5d should be able to see all of those lines with only a little effort.


Do you think someone who can see all those lines with little effort really needs the first move to be pointed out?

Otherwise it's not a problem, it's a "look how beautiful are these lines" aesthetic construction.
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Offline Shaddy
 Post subject: Re: Black to Play
Post #11 Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:12 pm 
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It's possible to miss the first move and go off on a futile reading adventure with some other first move. I almost did that because I thought the first move was too obvious (I thought it'd be a harder problem), but I decided to check it anyway.
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