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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Life/death corner
Post #1 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:11 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . O O O X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . . X O O |
$$ , X . X O . X . X O |
$$ X . . X O . X X O O |
$$ . . X O O . . . X X |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]


Black to move. Is this black corner dead (or at least, it needs to capture that white group to live)? Everything I try seems refutable with a bit of thought for white's response.

eg:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . O O O X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . . X O O |
$$ , X . X O . X . X O |
$$ X . . X O 8 X X O O |
$$ . . X O O 5 4 7 X X |
$$ . . . . . 6 1 2 3 . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #2 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:49 am 
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Locally, that is dead.

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Offline DeadTired
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #3 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:10 pm 
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
Locally, that is dead.

Have you considered starting at p2?
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #4 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:16 pm 
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DeadTired wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Locally, that is dead.

Have you considered starting at p2?


Yes, but I misread it. :oops: Seems it should be seki.

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Offline DeadTired
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #5 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:21 pm 
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
DeadTired wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Locally, that is dead.

Have you considered starting at p2?


Yes, but I misread it. :oops: Seems it should be seki.

There also seems to be this ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . O O O X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . . X O O |
$$ , X . X O . X . X O |
$$ X . . X O . X X O O |
$$ . . X O O1. 3 X X |
$$ . . . . . 4 . 2 . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #6 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:26 pm 
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Ah, yeah, you're right... misread yet again! Too much stuff going on today...

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #7 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:15 pm 
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DeadTired wrote:
There also seems to be this ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . O O O X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . . X O O |
$$ , X . X O . X . X O |
$$ X . . X O . X X O O |
$$ . . X O O 1 . 3 X X |
$$ . . . . . 4 . 2 . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]


I don't think that works because of this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . O O O X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . . X O O |
$$ , X . X O . X . X O |
$$ X . . X O . X X O O |
$$ . . X O O 1 . 3 X X |
$$ . . . . . 5 4 2 6 . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]


edit: ah actually, this would be a seki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . O O O X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . . X O O |
$$ , X . X O . X . X O |
$$ X . . X O 7 X X O O |
$$ . . X O O 1 . 3 X X |
$$ . . . . . 5 4 2 6 . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]

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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #8 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Please show me how P2 helps at all:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . O O O X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . . X O O |
$$ , X . X O . X . X O |
$$ X . . X O . X X O O |
$$ . . X O O X . . X X |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]

It looks dead easily to me.

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Offline prokofiev
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #9 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Dusk Eagle wrote:
Please show me how P2 helps at all:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . O O O X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . . X O O |
$$ , X . X O . X . X O |
$$ X . . X O . X X O O |
$$ . . X O O X . . X X |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]

It looks dead easily to me.


My reading:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . O O O X . O . |
$$ . . . X O . . X O O |
$$ , X . X O . X . X O |
$$ X . . X O . X X O O |
$$ . . X O O X . c X X |
$$ . . . . . 2 1 a b . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]


Now a,b give seki. White c lets black live with points (black b).
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #10 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:52 pm 
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Oh yeah :oops: . I saw :b2: followed by b, but not black's follow-up at 'c' rather than 'a'. I guess I'm desperately out of shape with my tsumego...

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Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: Life/death corner
Post #11 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:54 pm 
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Glad to see this is tricky enough to give others trouble too :P

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