It is currently Sun May 04, 2025 1:24 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #1 Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:56 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 42
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Hello.

In 9x9 Go, at my newbish level (10 kyu) I see a lot of people opening at the 3-3 point.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . , . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


It seems a bit passive for Black. After all, Black has a komi to surpass, so he should be more aggressive.

So my question is: what's the strongest response for White?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #2 Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:23 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1585
Location: Barcelona, Spain (GMT+1)
Liked others: 577
Was liked: 298
Rank: KGS 5k
KGS: RBerenguel
Tygem: rberenguel
Wbaduk: JohnKeats
Kaya handle: RBerenguel
Online playing schedule: KGS on Saturday I use to be online, but I can be if needed from 20-23 GMT+1
Alcadeias wrote:
Hello.

In 9x9 Go, at my newbish level (10 kyu) I see a lot of people opening at the 3-3 point.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . , . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]


It seems a bit passive for Black. After all, Black has a komi to surpass, so he should be more aggressive.

So my question is: what's the strongest response for White?


"Tengen" or the opposite 4-4 are my usual answers, keeping the symmetry and stacking a "bigger" point of control. Same quadrant 4-4 if I feel reckless/bored.

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #3 Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:37 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Alcadeias wrote:
After all, Black has a komi to surpass, so he should be more aggressive.


As you noticed, komi is relevant at much weaker levels on smaller boards. White can play pretty passively and win if black doesn't challenge white strongly on a 9x9 board. Frankly, a lot of white moves are probably fine. Even another 3-3 point is likely okay, banking on a win by komi. As you play more experienced players, you'll likely start to see a shift away from the 3-3 point, which I think beginners tend to play because it's a star point and where they got their handicap stones (see also 4-4 on larger boards) rather than due to a particular strategy.

That said, opening on 3-3 could be a viable strategy, with the idea of claiming some territory and making a solid group to fight and then proceeding to challenge white wherever white plays.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #4 Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:07 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
how about not playing 9x9 and work on 19x19.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


This post by Magicwand was liked by: Bantari
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #5 Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:27 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Magicwand wrote:
how about not playing 9x9 and work on 19x19.


:roll:

I'm not going to dignify that with any further response.

Anyways, as white I usually just take the opposing 3-3 point (diagonal) and see what black does. I feel that opening gives white an easier time with 6.5 komi. It's probably not the strongest response, but probably among the safest.


This post by illluck was liked by: Bonobo
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #6 Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:10 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
illluck wrote:
:roll:

I'm not going to dignify that with any further response.

guess what percentage of koreans actually play and enjoy 9x9.
if you want to run then get off your butt and stop crawling with baby board.

i guess i dignified myself since you didnt.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #7 Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:51 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1585
Location: Barcelona, Spain (GMT+1)
Liked others: 577
Was liked: 298
Rank: KGS 5k
KGS: RBerenguel
Tygem: rberenguel
Wbaduk: JohnKeats
Kaya handle: RBerenguel
Online playing schedule: KGS on Saturday I use to be online, but I can be if needed from 20-23 GMT+1
Magicwand wrote:
illluck wrote:
:roll:

I'm not going to dignify that with any further response.

guess what percentage of koreans actually play and enjoy 9x9.
if you want to run then get off your butt and stop crawling with baby board.

i guess i dignified myself since you didnt.


You didn't. We play go because we like. If we like to play 9x9 why should we stop and only play 19x19?

Back in the NGA summer camp I played a couple 9x9 with Mikyung Cho. She said she didn't play 9x9 very often and wasn't a big fan but knew pros that liked it a lot.

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net


This post by RBerenguel was liked by: Bonobo
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #8 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:45 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
RBerenguel wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
illluck wrote:
:roll:

I'm not going to dignify that with any further response.

guess what percentage of koreans actually play and enjoy 9x9.
if you want to run then get off your butt and stop crawling with baby board.

i guess i dignified myself since you didnt.


You didn't. We play go because we like. If we like to play 9x9 why should we stop and only play 19x19?

Back in the NGA summer camp I played a couple 9x9 with Mikyung Cho. She said she didn't play 9x9 very often and wasn't a big fan but knew pros that liked it a lot.


I will not dignify this response but... for a math persone, response lacks logic. :roll:

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #9 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:51 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1585
Location: Barcelona, Spain (GMT+1)
Liked others: 577
Was liked: 298
Rank: KGS 5k
KGS: RBerenguel
Tygem: rberenguel
Wbaduk: JohnKeats
Kaya handle: RBerenguel
Online playing schedule: KGS on Saturday I use to be online, but I can be if needed from 20-23 GMT+1
Not sure if you'd know logic even if an iff hit you on the head.

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #10 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:39 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
If you enjoy tic-tac-toe,Please play and enjoy.

For a person who is expert in if and iff to remain at 5 kyu..... no further comment

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #11 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:21 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1585
Location: Barcelona, Spain (GMT+1)
Liked others: 577
Was liked: 298
Rank: KGS 5k
KGS: RBerenguel
Tygem: rberenguel
Wbaduk: JohnKeats
Kaya handle: RBerenguel
Online playing schedule: KGS on Saturday I use to be online, but I can be if needed from 20-23 GMT+1
Magicwand wrote:
If you enjoy tic-tac-toe,Please play and enjoy.

For a person who is expert in if and iff to remain at 5 kyu..... no further comment


I'm lucky to know a bit about a huge amount of things, go among them. You could do the same.

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net


This post by RBerenguel was liked by: Bantari
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Opening at the 3-3 point in 9x9 Go
Post #12 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:31 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2221
Location: Germany
Liked others: 8268
Was liked: 924
Rank: OGS 9k
OGS: trohde
Universal go server handle: trohde

(turn off the sound here and fast forward to 1:21)

And use this as “soundtrack”:


:twisted:

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS? :)


This post by Bonobo was liked by: Magicwand
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group