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 Post subject: Choosing ko: How big is too big?
Post #1 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:34 pm 
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Inspired by this topic about sabaki, where the "ko is too big for black to play": viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2902

Is there a systematic way to determine if a ko is too big to try to play (optimally)? Typically when I read, I will try to determine a category: "Oh, this can be ko", or "Oh, this will live without ko", etc.

It seems useful to further categorize things into: "Oh, this can be ko, but it will be a ko that is too big to fight for my opponent".

How big is too big?

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing ko: How big is too big?
Post #2 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:47 pm 
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Evaluating the value of a ko is very difficult though I think it comes down this question, is avoiding the ko a smaller loss then ignoring your opponent's last ko threat. This is a difficult question to answer in most ko situations involving life and death, and endgame situations, but the opposite of say too big to play, would be a picnic ko http://senseis.xmp.net/?HanamiKo. But I guess like many positional judgement calls, the only "systematic" classification you can get is by counting and deep reading.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing ko: How big is too big?
Post #3 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:57 pm 
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ko is a beast.
professionals have taugh time evaluating ko.
no easy way out.
experience will help you better access the burden and ko threats.
ko fighting skills and your rank has direct correlation.

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Post #4 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:03 pm 
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It's at least one book. :)

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Post #5 Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:16 am 
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EdLee wrote:
It's at least one book. :)


What English language books are out there dealing extensively with evaluating and fighting kos?

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Post #6 Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:19 am 
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cdybeijing wrote:
What English language books are out there dealing extensively with evaluating and fighting kos?
All About Ko is the only one I heard of-- http://www.kiseido.com/master.htm#K76

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing ko: How big is too big?
Post #7 Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:58 am 
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Kirby wrote:
Is there a systematic way to determine if a ko is too big to try to play (optimally)? (...) How big is too big?

Please check out GoBase for Matthews book (PDF and legal) - excellent and tough stuff !!!

http://gobase.org/studying/articles/matthews/ko :study: :salute: :scratch:

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Last edited by Tommie on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #8 Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:06 am 
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EdLee wrote:
cdybeijing wrote:
What English language books are out there dealing extensively with evaluating and fighting kos?
All About Ko is the only one I heard of-- http://www.kiseido.com/master.htm#K76


It's a pretty tough book. (At least for someone at my level...)

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Post #9 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:38 am 
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kirkmc wrote:
EdLee wrote:
cdybeijing wrote:
What English language books are out there dealing extensively with evaluating and fighting kos?
All About Ko is the only one I heard of-- http://www.kiseido.com/master.htm#K76


It's a pretty tough book. (At least for someone at my level...)


Tough for all levels .... co-written by a pro !

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Post #10 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:18 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
cdybeijing wrote:
What English language books are out there dealing extensively with evaluating and fighting kos?
All About Ko is the only one I heard of-- http://www.kiseido.com/master.htm#K76


Think Like a Pro: Pae is another one, written by the same pro who did Think Like a Pro: Haengma. http://www.slateandshell.com/SSYY202.html

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing ko: How big is too big?
Post #11 Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:57 pm 
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"Fighting Ko" By Jin Jiang, Yutopian Enterprises, 1995. 140 pages, $ 11,95 . Ch 2: "Deciding whether to initiate a ko fight". 20 ( small ) pages.
I have to reread it before commenting. But my impression is that it tells lots of thruths without explaining too much.

I quote: " It is unreasonable for w to initiate ko regardless of the lack of ko threats in the beginning. Even if there were nothing is bigger for b than winning this ko. " period.


Last edited by cyclops on Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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