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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Late valentine
Post #1 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:02 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
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One of my little darlin's :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . . |
$$ | O X . X . X . |
$$ | O X X . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


No komi.

Enjoy!

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by 4 people: Chew Terr, Dusk Eagle, emeraldemon, gaius
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #2 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:38 pm 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 1a
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 3 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

:w7: retakes, :w9: fills, -1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 1b
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X 0 X 3 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b6: fills, :w11: fills, -1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 2a
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 4 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


-1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 2b
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 5 |
$$ | . 8 . . . 6 . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


-2
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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #3 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Posts: 1125
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Universal go server handle: Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 7 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | 4 5 6 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

:b8: @ :b4: and :b10: @ :w5:


1 captured each. White wins by 2...

*edit*... doesn't work if black plays :b4: at :w7: first.... in that case a ko at :w3: would be more in whites favor... but I am not sure black would play into the ko....

*edit*
I take that back... :b4: at :w7: first leaves white winning plus 1?

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I'm thinking...
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #4 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:45 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
so simple but tricky.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 4 X . 5 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #5 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:51 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
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Was liked: 3374
Magicwand wrote:
so simple but tricky.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 4 X . 5 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


That's how I like 'em. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #6 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:52 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2060
Location: Texas
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Was liked: 173
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 7 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X 8 X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

10 at 1
Unless I'm wrong, this is 9-8, white's favor.

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #7 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:56 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
jts wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 1a
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 3 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

:w7: retakes, :w9: fills, -1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 1b
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X 0 X 3 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b6: fills, :w11: fills, -1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 2a
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 4 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


-1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 2b
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 5 |
$$ | . 8 . . . 6 . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


-2


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 3 . |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #8 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:59 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 7 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X 8 X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

10 at 1
Unless I'm wrong, this is 9-8, white's favor.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Chew Terr
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #9 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:02 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Jordus wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 7 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | 4 5 6 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

:b8: @ :b4: and :b10: @ :w5:


1 captured each. White wins by 2...

*edit*... doesn't work if black plays :b4: at :w7: first.... in that case a ko at :w3: would be more in whites favor... but I am not sure black would play into the ko....

*edit*
I take that back... :b4: at :w7: first leaves white winning plus 1?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #10 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:03 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2060
Location: Texas
Liked others: 546
Was liked: 173
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Bill Spight wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 7 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X 8 X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

10 at 1
Unless I'm wrong, this is 9-8, white's favor.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | 0 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Ah. Is this it, then? Each player wins one ko, and I think that leaves white one ahead. 10-9, I think?

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

This post by Chew Terr was liked by: Bill Spight
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #11 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:27 pm 
Oza
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Bill Spight wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 3 . |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Ouch!
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 3 . |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 5 6 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Second try: -1
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 4 5 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Still -1 ( :b6: and :w7: are miai)
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Did I miss anything this time?

This post by jts was liked by: Bill Spight
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Offline snorri
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #12 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:33 pm 
Lives in sente

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GD Posts: 846
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W+1
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 4 5 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


After :w3:, there seem to be a number of ways black can play that result in W+1 or worse for black. I could show one with more fighting spirit, but what's the point? This is a sad result. I would be happy to see a happier way for black.

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #13 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:10 am 
Honinbo

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Simple and tricky, as MagicWand says. :)

Tricky because few people have seen the key combination, which gains, ahem, 7/12 of a point.

Congratulations to the solvers. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . . |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Usually :w1: is part of a combination with a connection along the edge that gains 1/2 pt. Here it is part of a combination with :w3:, which gains 7/12 of a point. White wins by 1 pt. The rest is miai.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Stubborn resistance
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X O X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X W |
$$ | O X X . X X X |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b4: offers the most stubborn resistance by capturing a stone. The point of the exercise is that :w5: forces :b6:, so that the combination, :b4: - :b6:, gains only 1/3 pt. Now the combination, :w7: - :w9:, gains 1/3 pt. for White. The players share the two open kos. White still wins by 1 pt.

The original position has an overall count of -5/12 (from Black's point of view). After :w1: - :w3: the count is -1, for a White win.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Failure
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 1 B O O |
$$ | O X X 9 B 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 4 |
$$ | O X X . X X . |
$$ | 8 5 6 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b10: fills the ko.

The right and center look like a miai pair, each of which gains 1/2 pt. However, they interact because of the threat against the :bc: stones in the previous diagram. If White makes the mistake of playing them as miai ( :w1: - :b4:), he loses 1/12 pt., for a count of -1/3. Then each of :w5: - :b8: gains 1/3 pt., so that the count remains -1/3.

Now White has no ko threat, but must fill a dame with :w9:. (Note that :b2: was necessary to prevent :w9: from becoming a ko threat.) Then :b10: fills the ko to gain 1/3 pt. for jigo.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 1 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 2 |
$$ | O X X . X X 3 |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b1: gains 7/12, for a count of 1/6. Now the combination, :w2: - :w4:, gains 1/2, for a count of -1/3. Finally, :b5: gains 1/3, for jigo. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline mw42
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #14 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:34 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 566
Liked others: 39
Was liked: 59
Rank: 1k
Universal go server handle: mw42
W+1, late to the parade, I know. :cool:

[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[7]KM[0.00]
GN[]DT[2011-02-24]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]AW[bb][cb][db][eb][fb][bc][fc][gc][ad][ae][af]AB[cc][ec][bd][cd][ed][be][de][fe][bf][cf][ef][ff]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/

]PL[W]
(;)
(;W[ge]
;B[gf]
;W[dc]
(;B[gd]
;W[fd]
;B[dd]
;W[bg]
;B[cg]
;W[ac]
;B[ge]
;W[ag]TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ab][gb]TB[ce][ee][df][dg][eg][fg][gg])
(;B[fd]
;W[gd]
;B[ag]
;W[ac]
;B[bg]TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ab][gb]TB[ce][ee][df][cg][dg][eg][fg][gg])))[/sgf-full]

This post by mw42 was liked by: Bill Spight
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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #15 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:04 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1449
Liked others: 1562
Was liked: 140
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Best I can do:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc A tie?
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 5 O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Edit after looking at the answers: Ah. I thought about the kos briefly, but didn't see the winning line.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go
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