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Offline cyclops
 Post subject: tsumego #33
Post #1 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Day #33 December 7th
#33a Advanced problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|....X.....
$$|...XOX.XO.
$$|...OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]

#33b Intermediate problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|...O...
$$|OOO..X.
$$|.XO..X.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]

#33c Elementary problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.XX....
$$|XOOOOX.
$$|XOXXXX.
$$|OOX,...
$$|XXX....
$$|.......[/go]

Pls check #32 thread to see some five years old quotes about #32a. Seems something rotten in the state of tsumego.
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Offline schawipp
 Post subject: Re: tsumego #33
Post #2 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:20 am 
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I give it a try:

#33c Elementary problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|2XX.1..
$$|XOOOOX.
$$|XOXXXX.
$$|OOX,...
$$|XXX....
$$|.......[/go]


and then ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.XX.1..
$$|3OOOOX.
$$|.OXXXX.
$$|OOX,...
$$|XXX....
$$|.......[/go]


This leads to "bent four in the corner"
Edit: This is even "more" dead due to shortage of liberties :roll:


#33b Intermediate problem
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.2.O...
$$|OOO3.X.
$$|.XO.1X.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.4.O...
$$|OOO52X.
$$|.XO31X.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.5.O...
$$|OOO42X.
$$|.XO31X.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.4.O2..
$$|OOO53X.
$$|.XO.1X.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]


etc... in all variations, w is unconditionally dead


#33a Advanced problem
With this problem, I'm not really sure. First, it seems clear that there is only one eye around the G19 area. Thus, b has to make a second eye elsewhere, which is only possible in upper left corner. A possible start would be

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|.4..X.....
$$|.21XOX.XO.
$$|.35OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]


(5 is only move for b). After this I can not see how w could prevent a second eye, but maybe I'm missing another important variation.
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Offline Unusedname
 Post subject: Re: tsumego #33
Post #3 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:23 am 
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#33a

the best i could get was ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|....X..312
$$|...XOX.XO4
$$|...OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]


i can assume that white has to block else black gets free right?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|..56X7.XXO
$$|314XOX8XOO
$$|.2.OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|.3X4XX.XXO
$$|XXO1OXOXOO
$$|.O2OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]


and now black needs another ko threat

alternatively

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|..34X5.XXO
$$|.12XOX6XOO
$$|...OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|..X4XX.XXO
$$|.XO1OXOXOO
$$|.32OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]


again black needs a ko threat.


#33b

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.b.O...
$$|OOOa1X.
$$|.XO..X.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]


i think just 1 is enough
a and b miai


#33c

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|2XX.1..
$$|XOOOOX.
$$|XOXXXX.
$$|OOX,...
$$|XXX....
$$|.......[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|CXX.X..
$$|3OOOOX.
$$|.OXXXX.
$$|OOX,...
$$|XXX....
$$|.......[/go]


Last edited by Unusedname on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: tsumego #33
Post #4 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:32 am 
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First time posting, hope I did not mess the markup.
#33a Advanced problem
In my reading, if 1, after 2 no mattew how B answers, a kills.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|...2X.....
$$|..1XOX.XO.
$$|.a.OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]


If 1, after 2 and 3, there is ko (b can get an eye by playing a if w connects at b)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|..3.X.....
$$|.12XOX.XO.
$$|.abOOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]



If ko is not an option due to threats, B could perhas sacrifice right side? After 3, 4 seems forced, and then 5 looks like it lives or runs?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|...2.4....
$$|..1XOX.XO.
$$|.3.OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|.5.O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]


what did I miss, or misread?
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Offline Unusedname
 Post subject: Re: tsumego #33
Post #5 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:40 am 
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TIM82 wrote:
First time posting, hope I did not mess the markup.
#33a Advanced problem

If ko is not an option due to threats, B could perhas sacrifice right side? After 3, 4 seems forced, and then 5 looks like it lives or runs?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|...2.4....
$$|..1XOX.XO.
$$|.3.OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|.5.O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]


what did I miss, or misread?


I think white can kill without letting black escape by playing here

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-----------
$$|....X.....
$$|..1XOX.XO.
$$|.2.OOX.XO.
$$|...O.OXXO,
$$|...O.OOO..
$$|..........[/go]
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Offline schawipp
 Post subject: Re: tsumego #33
Post #6 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:41 am 
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Unusedname wrote:
#33a

#33b

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.b.O...
$$|OOOa1X.
$$|.XO..X.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]


i think just 1 is enough
a and b miai



I think, this does not work:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.b.O...
$$|OOO21X.
$$|.XO.aX.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]


If white answers this way, then a and b are miai for life.
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Offline SoDesuNe
 Post subject: Re: tsumego #33
Post #7 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:44 am 
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schawipp wrote:
Unusedname wrote:
#33a

#33b

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.b.O...
$$|OOOa1X.
$$|.XO..X.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]


i think just 1 is enough
a and b miai



I think, this does not work:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.b.O...
$$|OOO21X.
$$|.XO.aX.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]


If white answers this way, then a and b are miai for life.


Correct. That's why:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------
$$|.b.O...
$$|OOOa.X.
$$|.XO.1X.
$$|.XOOOX.
$$|..XXX..
$$|.......[/go]

I guess, Black plays :b1: , making 'a' and 'b' Miai.

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