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Can you tell who won THESE pro games?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8761
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Author:  emeraldemon [ Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Can you tell who won THESE pro games?

These are 10 professional games that ended in resignation, before 200 moves. All are territory scoring, 6.5 komi. Can you tell who won each game?
I did this once before, but since there has been some discussion lately about positional judgement and counting, I thought I'd do it again.

Game 1:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X . O . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X O X O . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O O . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X O X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O . O X X X O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X X . . . . O . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . , X X O . . , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . O . . . . O O X O O X O . |
$$ | . X X O X X X O . X X X O O X . X O O |
$$ | . X O O X O X O . . O X . . X . X O . |
$$ | . O X X X O O O X X X O O . . . X X O |
$$ | . O O X . X O X . X O X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O X . O O X X O O X . O . , X X . |
$$ | X O X . X . O . O O . X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X X O . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game 2:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X X . X X . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . X . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . O , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . X X X O O . O O O X X . . . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . O X X O X X O . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . X X X X . X X X O O . X . X . . O . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . X O . . . X O O . . |
$$ | O . . O O . O O . X O O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . O . X X O X . O . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game 3:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . X X X . . . X X |
$$ | . X . O . O X . O , O O O . . X X X O |
$$ | . . O . O X X . . . . . . X . X O O O |
$$ | . X O . . O X . . . . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O . O . X . . . X O X X X O O O . |
$$ | . X O . . O O X . . X O X . O . O X . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . O X X O . O . O X . |
$$ | . X X O X X X X X X O X O . O , X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X O . . O X O X . X . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X O O X X O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . X X O O X O . O X O O . . |
$$ | . X O X O X O . . O X . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X X O . X X . O . . . O O O X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . O X . , . . . X X , X . . |
$$ | X O O . O O . X . O . O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game 4:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O . O . . . . O X O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . O . . O . O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . O . X O . . O . O O X X X X O O O X |
$$ | . X X X O O . . O . O O O . O X X X . |
$$ | X O O O . . . O O . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X . X X X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | X X . X X O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X . O . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O O X X O . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X X O O O . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O X O . O . O O O O . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . X O O X . . O X X O . |
$$ | . X O O O . O . X . O X . X X . X X O |
$$ | . O . . X . O . X . X O X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game 5:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . O . X . . X X . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | X O O O O X . . X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X O . . . . . X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X . O . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . , . X X O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . . O . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . X . X X . X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . . O . O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | O X X . . X X X X O . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | O O O X . O X . O X O . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O X O . X X O . . X , X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . X X . O . O . X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game 6:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . O . . . O X X . O O X X O X . X . |
$$ | . O . O X X O X O . O X X O X . . . X |
$$ | . X O O O O X X O O X X O O X X X X X |
$$ | . X X X . . . X O . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X O . X O O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X O O X X X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X O O O O X . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X O . X O O X X O . X O O O O . |
$$ | . X . X X O . O O , . X . X X O X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . X X X . X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . X . . . O . . . . X X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X X . X . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O . . , . O O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . O X . X X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game 7:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X . . . . O . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O X . O . X . O X . O . X O . O |
$$ | . . X O O O . X . O . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . X X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . O . X . O . |
$$ | . . O X X . O O . O . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X X O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . O X . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . O . . X O X . X X . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . . . X O . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X . O X X . X . O O O X . O X . |
$$ | O X O X . O O . . X O X X X . O X . X |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . X O X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . O O . X . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | O . X O . . O X X X X O O X O O O X . |
$$ | O X X O . X . X . X O . O O . O X X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . X O . O . . O X X . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game 8:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . X O O O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X X . X O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O O X X . X X O O X . X . . X . |
$$ | . X . O . O O . . O . O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . O X . O . X X X O . O X X X O O O . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . O X X X O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O O . X X O O . . O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . X X O . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . O O O . X . X O . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O X . . O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X O X X X O X X X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . O X O O X O O . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . X O X . X X O X . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . X X O O . X O O O . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . . . . O O X . X X . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game 9:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X X X X X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . O O X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O O O . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X O O O O X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X X O X O O X X O . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O O X X O X O . O . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X . X O O X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O X X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X X X X X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O O . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Game 10:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ End position
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . O O , O O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . X O . . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X X X X X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X O X O O O O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O O . O X O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . O O . O X X O . . X O X X . |
$$ | . O . X . X O O X X O O O . X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . X X X X X O X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X O O . O O X X O O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O . O O . O X O X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . O X X O X X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . . X . , . X . . X , X O X |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


ANSWERS:
Guess first, then look!

Game 1: White wins (Ko Iso > Kanazawa Hideo, 35th Gosei preliminary tournament A final)
Game 2: Black wins (Iyama Yuta > Iguchi Toyohide, 35th Gosei tournament 1st round)
Game 3: Black wins (Xiao Zhenghao > Zhou Heyang, 17th LG Cup 1st round)
Game 4: White wins (Qiu Jun > Jiang Weijie, 24th Fujitsu Cup semifinal)
Game 5: Black wins (Kim Jiseok > Piao Wenyao, 13th Nongshim Cup 10th round)
Game 6: Black wins (Li Zhe > An Hyungjun, 18th LG Cup 1st round)
Game 7: Black wins (Shi Yue > Na Hyun, 17th LG Cup 3rd round)
Game 8: Black wins (Kang Dongyun > Li Kang, 17th LG Cup 3rd round)
Game 9: Black wins (Takao Shinji > Ko Iso, 67th Honinbo league)
Game 10: White wins (Imamura Toshiya > Cho Sonjin, 68th Honinbo league)

Author:  jts [ Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you tell who won THESE pro games?

As usual I was logged out while writing up the count. I did guess correctly on all of them, though. I was least confident about 5 (I assumed that the weakness of the center group was worth at least 10 points to black, but couldn't count precisely) and 7 (at first I thought it was dead even, but then I decided that the weakness of the bottom group gives B the lead in grabbing the biggest endgame.)

Several of my counts had the gap as +8 or +10. I'm not sure whether this speaks to my poor counting or what.

Author:  Phoenix [ Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you tell who won THESE pro games?

All right except the last one. Now I can feel confident in my decision whenever I resign. :mrgreen:

Author:  emeraldemon [ Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you tell who won THESE pro games?

jts wrote:
Several of my counts had the gap as +8 or +10. I'm not sure whether this speaks to my poor counting or what.


I don't think it would be surprising that pros would wait for a largish gap before resigning so early, some of these resignations are before move 150. I'd certainly try to fight it out.

Author:  Phoenix [ Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you tell who won THESE pro games?

emeraldemon wrote:
I don't think it would be surprising that pros would wait for a largish gap before resigning so early, some of these resignations are before move 150.


Agreed. A pro's livelihood depends on his winning percentage as well as his tournament performance. 10 points is a very large gap to catch up at the pro level. If you look closely at the games, you'll find there aren't any productive fighting chances left for the pro who resigned.

I love Gogameguru's An Younggil's comments in the endgame, when he goes "White is winning by half a point" or something of the sort, 40+ moves before the end of the game. It puts things into perspective. :mrgreen:

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