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| 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4184 |
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| Author: | Nagilum [ Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
Cool. It seems that waiting comes to an end.  The kiseido shop site lists the "21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki": http://www.kiseido.com/K41.htm Unlike the Ishida it is a two-volume-edition. Volume 1 covers all 3-4 Josekis. Volume 2 is scheduled for the early 2012. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks, Nagilum.
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| Author: | Riff Raff [ Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
Wow, $55 for each volume. How many pages is this thing? |
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| Author: | Nagilum [ Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
Riff Raff wrote: Wow, $55 for each volume. How many pages is this thing? The german translation is planned as a three-volume-edition like the Ishida. The first book of this series has roundabout 300 sites which are all pretty dense with content. Even when you assume a similar book format like "A Dictionary of Modern Fuseki: The Korean Style" i think the book could have 400 pages, perhaps even more. I think there is nothing wrong with the price. For the complete german edition i would have to pay 3 x 32€, so 2 x 40€ for a very good english translation is much better. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:49 pm ] |
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Nagilum wrote: The german translation is planned as a three-volume-edition like the Ishida. Do you know who's doing the German translation,and is there an existing German translation of Ishida's? (I'm just curious.) |
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| Author: | Cassandra [ Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Nagilum wrote: The german translation is planned as a three-volume-edition like the Ishida. Do you know who's doing the German translation,and is there an existing German translation of Ishida's? (I'm just curious.) The German translation is published by "Brett und Stein" (= "Board and Stone") publishing house (>>> www.brett-und-stein.de). There had been no German translation of Ishida's dictionary. |
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| Author: | kirkmc [ Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
Note that these are large pages - Invincible size. I queried Richard Bozulich at Kiseido, and he replied the following: "21st Century Joseki is the same dimensions as the Shusaku book and consists of 302 pages. The price reflects the size of the book plus the royalties we have to pay to the Nihon Ki-in plus the translation fee." |
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| Author: | RobertJasiek [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
Which is the average line distance (stone diameter) of the diagrams? Are the diagrams arranged horizontally or vertically on a page? Which percentage of a page width does a diagram use? |
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| Author: | Cassandra [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
The Japanese original has 4 diagrams per page, on 500 - 510 pages. If the English edition consists of 300 pages, there must be 7 diagrams per page. A vertical arrangement of the diagrams seems likely to me. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks, kirkmc, Cassandra.
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| Author: | Cassandra [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
Nagilum wrote: For the complete german edition I would have to pay 3 x 32€, so 2 x 40€ for a very good english translation is much better. May be "hardcover" for such a standard work is worth the difference ? |
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| Author: | Nagilum [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
Cassandra wrote: Nagilum wrote: For the complete german edition I would have to pay 3 x 32€, so 2 x 40€ for a very good english translation is much better. May be "hardcover" for such a standard work is worth the difference ? The german edition is not a hardcover edition, nevertheless it seems to be a better binding than a usual softcover-editon. But after i read the german translation  i would pay an equal prize or even more for a good english tranlation. It's all about habits. Yet, i haven't books in the format of "Invincible" or "Kamakura". I like "light shape" more than "heavy shape", this is also true for books. 
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| Author: | tchan001 [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
Nagilum wrote: I like "light shape" more than "heavy shape", this is also true for books. Hinoki Press books would probably be the lightest shape books. They tend to get lighter and lighter with time and usage as the binding deteriorates. For myself, I prefer "heavy books" which last a very long time; especially Edo period Japanese go books which are traditionally bound. They can last well over a hundred years and as you can see in my blog, my copy of an original Gokyo Shumyo is still in very readable condition. |
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| Author: | oren [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
tchan001 wrote: Hinoki Press books would probably be the lightest shape books. They tend to get lighter and lighter with time and usage as the binding deteriorates. Japanese books tend to be smaller and have better binding. It doesn't need to be big. 
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| Author: | Nagilum [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
tchan001 wrote: Nagilum wrote: I like "light shape" more than "heavy shape", this is also true for books. Hinoki Press books would probably be the lightest shape books. They tend to get lighter and lighter with time and usage as the binding deteriorates. For myself, I prefer "heavy books" which last a very long time; especially Edo period Japanese go books which are traditionally bound. They can last well over a hundred years and as you can see in my blog, my copy of an original Gokyo Shumyo is still in very readable condition. I also prefer books of quality with a proper binding and sites which are not so thin that you can looking through the page. I used the term "light shape" ( at least this was my intention ) in context of mobility. A book format like "Invincible" may be good for studying at home but when i am travelling i find such a format not very handy. |
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| Author: | Cassandra [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
oren wrote: tchan001 wrote: Hinoki Press books would probably be the lightest shape books. They tend to get lighter and lighter with time and usage as the binding deteriorates. Japanese books tend to be smaller and have better binding. It doesn't need to be big. That's true indeed. But it seems that not so many people in Western countries are willing to pay a fair price for such a high-quality binding. |
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| Author: | Horibe [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
Nagilum wrote: Unlike the Ishida it is a two-volume-edition. Volume 1 covers all 3-4 Josekis. A slight clarification here. If we think of the original Ishida, in Japanese, then this translation is like the Ishida, maintaining the two volume format. The Ishi Ishida, and now the Kisiedo Ishida - made three volumes of the original two. |
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| Author: | PeterHB [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
tchan001 wrote: Hinoki Press books would probably be the lightest shape books. They tend to get lighter and lighter with time and usage as the binding deteriorates. very droll. So true. 
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| Author: | DeaconJohn [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
I already own the Ishida edition of this dictionary and I am trying to decide whether or not to buy the new (Takao) edition. I also own the excellent Nihon Kiin Handbook of Even Game Joseki, http://www.yutopian.com/go/bookeg/PAY36.html . How does this work compare with the Nihon Kiin Handbook? How does it compare with Kogo's Joseki Dictionary? These works show that there have been significant advances in many of the most basic joseki since the 1977 Ishida edition. (http://waterfire.us/joseki.htm, either the December 2010 or the July 2011 edition) Kiseido's review of the Takao edition says that it contains many new variations of the magic sword joseki and the large avalanche joseki. (This is not terribly encouraging since the magic sword and the large avavlance with their numerous variations are not really basic joseki.) But, how about new variations of the other old josekis? How about new josekis? (http://kiseidogoblog.wordpress.com/) The Kisedo review says "Like the Ishida work, it thoroughly analyses the various components of josekis, such as tesujis and good style and good shape, and focusses in depth on such themes as securing momentum and building influence. Each joseki listed is backed up by numerous diagrams exploring alternative moves and mistakes", but, is this new material or just a rehash of the old material? Does anybody have a URL for an English review of this book that is more informative than the Kiseido review? The Japanese edition of the new version has been out for a while. Are there any reviews of the Japanese version? DeaconJohn |
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| Author: | gowan [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki |
DeaconJohn wrote: I already own the Ishida edition of this dictionary and I am trying to decide whether or not to buy the new (Takao) edition. I also own the excellent Nihon Kiin Handbook of Even Game Joseki, http://www.yutopian.com/go/bookeg/PAY36.html . How does this work compare with the Nihon Kiin Handbook? How does it compare with Kogo's Joseki Dictionary? These works show that there have been significant advances in many of the most basic joseki since the 1977 Ishida edition. (http://waterfire.us/joseki.htm, either the December 2010 or the July 2011 edition) Kiseido's review of the Takao edition says that it contains many new variations of the magic sword joseki and the large avalanche joseki. (This is not terribly encouraging since the magic sword and the large avavlance with their numerous variations are not really basic joseki.) But, how about new variations of the other old josekis? How about new josekis? (http://kiseidogoblog.wordpress.com/) The Kisedo review says "Like the Ishida work, it thoroughly analyses the various components of josekis, such as tesujis and good style and good shape, and focusses in depth on such themes as securing momentum and building influence. Each joseki listed is backed up by numerous diagrams exploring alternative moves and mistakes", but, is this new material or just a rehash of the old material? Does anybody have a URL for an English review of this book that is more informative than the Kiseido review? The Japanese edition of the new version has been out for a while. Are there any reviews of the Japanese version? DeaconJohn There are many variations called joseki in the Ishida books that are now considered advantageous for one side or the other. Also, the Ishida book (volume 3) is particularly weak on 4-4 point joseki and I would expect that the Takao book(s) have a lot more on that topic. There are probably many variations in the Takao book that are not in the Ishida book. The English version of Ishida's book dates from 35 to 40 years ago. The Japanese original was revised in the mid-1990's. I doubt that Takao's book will have much on "joseki" being experimented in current pro play. Such sequences are not yet "proven" as joseki. As for Kogo's online dictionary, Eidogo and Josekipedia, they tend to have a lot of errors or give very little actual evaluation of the results of sequences of moves. |
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