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Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
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Author:  Splatted [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
I've decided I can no longer resist the urge to import some Japanese go books, but there are so many to choose from that I'm having trouble deciding so I thought I'd ask everyone what their favouirites were. I don't care if it's a book you've read in translation as long as it's also available in Japanese. Here's what I'm thinking at the moment:

* No problem books, because diagrams aren't language specific.
* I'm more interested in theory books than game commentaries, because the only go book I currently own is a book of commentaries.
* Possibly a book by Fujisawa Shuko, because though I'm not particularly familiar with his playing what I've heard about his attitude towards go has made me want to know more.
* Absolutely vital points in fuseki that amatuers don't know has caught my interest because my current thinking is that the transition from opening to mddlegame is an area that's particularly worthy of study. Edit: Tami's review viewtopic.php?f=57&t=6916
* A Joseki book that can be used for an in depth study of joseki would be great. I don't want a joseki dictionary that just lists possible variations, but something that explains the meanings of moves and discusses the strengths/weaknesses of the finished positions. (Is there such a book?)

Let me know what you think. I'm not particularly attatched to any of these ideas because there's no way I'll be able to afford every book I want. :cry:
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Splatted wrote:
* A Joseki book that can be used for an in depth study of joseki would be great. I don't want a joseki dictionary that just lists possible variations, but something that explains the meanings of moves and discusses the strengths/weaknesses of the finished positions. (Is there such a book?)


Why Japanese? Is English not good enough?
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
世界の新定石 by Jiang and Rui. 3 vols.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/世界の新定石%E3%80%88PART1〉-棋苑囲碁ブックス-江-鋳久/dp/4873651549/

Sonoda's books look pretty good.

See http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoodPointsAndBadPointsToPlay

and http://www.amazon.co.jp/苑田-勇一/e/B004LRLGVK/

:)
Author:  Splatted [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Thanks Bill I'll take a look at them.

@Robert: Partly because I think it will be good for my Japanese, but mostly just because it's fun doing stuff in another language. That's the whole reason I'm learning Japanese in the first place. :D
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Ok, good reason, but WRT joseki move meanings and results you can choose English, Japanese and Korean to get the broadest knowledge.
Author:  gowan [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Personally I prefer books of commented games but this http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E4%BE%9D%E7%94 ... 979&sr=1-1 book (Yoda Nouto) Yoda's notebook, is interesting and covers different topics, and several people have spoken well of it.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
gowan wrote:
Personally I prefer books of commented games but this http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E4%BE%9D%E7%94 ... 979&sr=1-1 book (Yoda Nouto) Yoda's notebook, is interesting and covers different topics, and several people have spoken well of it.


I have also heard people speak well of Yoda's notebook. :)
Author:  Aten [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
- A Joseki book that can be used for an in depth study of joseki would be great. I don't want a joseki dictionary that just lists possible variations, but something that explains the meanings of moves and discusses the strengths/weaknesses of the finished positions. (Is there such a book?)

Well, i don't read Japanese [though i got my older Yale Jordan books for Basic Japanese when i start - the Black/Orange ones], but i do think i can pick out a few books

I think most of the credit would go for tchan putting up most of the information on Japanese go books in the first place....

---

- Quickly Understand! Encyclopedia of Joseki Formation - Fukui Masaaki 2005
[ISBN: 978-4930831491]
Ch 1 – Mainstream of the Edo Era – 3-4 Point 江戸本流、小目 (39 articles)
Ch 2 – Contemporary Mainstream – 4-4 Point 現代主流、星 (32 articles)
Ch 3 – High Voltage – 5-4 Point 高圧、高目 (16 articles)
Ch 4 – Transformation – 5-3 Point 変幻、目ハズシ (10 articles)
[A very interesting book by Fukui Masaaki (9D) who is known for his scholarship and understanding of old games from ancient records. Digging through 400 years of go history, the author strives to show the evolution of joseki over time. This book takes a look at the various joseki and shows how leading professional players of the times played and how new ideas resulted in changes in old joseki. The book only provides a light explanation of concepts so don’t expect lots of variations to study.]
[I think this book is a great supplement to database joseki research as it is compiled by an expert who has a great understanding of go history. Seems to make studying joseki less dry if you understand Japanese.]

it sounds right up your alley, and i'll wait decades for someone to translate it
Author:  John Fairbairn [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Quote:
Quickly Understand! Encyclopedia of Joseki Formation - Fukui Masaaki 2005
[ISBN: 978-4930831491]
Ch 1 – Mainstream of the Edo Era – 3-4 Point 江戸本流、小目 (39 articles)
Ch 2 – Contemporary Mainstream – 4-4 Point 現代主流、星 (32 articles)
Ch 3 – High Voltage – 5-4 Point 高圧、高目 (16 articles)
Ch 4 – Transformation – 5-3 Point 変幻、目ハズシ (10 articles)
[A very interesting book by Fukui Masaaki (9D) who is known for his scholarship and understanding of old games from ancient records. Digging through 400 years of go history, the author strives to show the evolution of joseki over time. This book takes a look at the various joseki and shows how leading professional players of the times played and how new ideas resulted in changes in old joseki. The book only provides a light explanation of concepts so don’t expect lots of variations to study.]
[I think this book is a great supplement to database joseki research as it is compiled by an expert who has a great understanding of go history. Seems to make studying joseki less dry if you understand Japanese.]


This is indeed an interesting book, but the text is important, and I'd say it's for someone who already has a good grasp of the main josekis. This book will help you pigeon-hole everything better, but won't teach you much that is useful if you are looking for killer plays. There is no electricity in the book. 'High voltage' should be 'Pressing from high' and the title of Ch. 4 is better rendered as 'The kaleidoscopic mokuhazishi' (i.e. ever-changing).

A better book for most people who can cope with Japanese would be Go Seigen's "How to Think about Joseki" (Jouseki no kangaekata) if you can still get it. Not a huge amount of content, but truly eye-opening. Again, it's better for people who already know (or, rather, think they know) the usual josekis, but you can't appreciate how much lies within the kernel of a joseki until you look through the microscope provided by this book.

Both books are more interesting than anything about josekis in English simply because they do a Heineken, but I haven't seen anything in Chinese or Korean either that can get anywhere near matching them within their respective fields.
Author:  aconley [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Quote:
Both books are more interesting than anything about josekis in English simply because they do a Heineken


A joseki book best read while drinking would be pretty interesting...
I assume you meant 'do a Heisman.'
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
John Fairbairn wrote:
Both books are more interesting than anything about josekis in English simply because they do a Heineken


This needs explanation.
Author:  Tami [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
RobertJasiek wrote:
John Fairbairn wrote:
Both books are more interesting than anything about josekis in English simply because they do a Heineken


This needs explanation.


Heineken, as every Briton knows, is the beer that refreshes the parts other lagers cannot reach. There were many funny TV adverts based on that slogan in the 70s and 70s. I presume John means that the books address issues not discussed in depth elsewhere.

Funnily enough, I`ve just drank a can of Heineken...not bad at all.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Tami wrote:
Funnily enough, I`ve just drank a can of Heineken...not bad at all.


Ah! The Heineken maneuver! ;)
Author:  Boidhre [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
I prefer books resembling Guinness. ;)
Author:  oren [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Splatted wrote:
Let me know what you think. I'm not particularly attatched to any of these ideas because there's no way I'll be able to afford every book I want. :cry:


Don't worry, you can become an addict and keep buying every book. For joseki, the standard is the new dictionary from Nihon Kiin. Between that and SmartGo+GoGod, I rarely use much else. Nihon Kiin has released a new set of books that are more problem/theory oriented that are broken up for joseki, fuseki, and middle game. I only read the middle game one so far and enjoyed it. I picked up the other two, but it's on my to do list.

I know you said no game commentaries but I really like the Asahi Shinbun Meijin books that are out every year. A lot of detail and very good games.

From Shuko, you can find used 'この一手' and 'わたしならこう打つ'. They're both pretty good, but I haven't really gone through them in any detail yet. Lately I've been going through Yamashita's book about Tengen as first move and Murakawa Daisuke's book of self commented games.

I know you said no problem books, but Cho U's Tsumego book has a mix of mostly problems, some self commented games and stories. I would highly recommend it.

I keep a list of what I have on sensei's if you have questions on any books I can pop open. http://senseis.xmp.net/?oren
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
oren wrote:
From Shuko, you can find used 'この一手' and 'わたしならこう打つ'. They're both pretty good, but I haven't really gone through them in any detail yet. Lately I've been going through Yamashita's book about Tengen as first move and Murakawa Daisuke's book of self commented games.


He has authored a ton of books. Probably all ghost written, but he's a creative player. :)
Author:  oren [ Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Bill Spight wrote:
He has authored a ton of books. Probably all ghost written, but he's a creative player. :)


Very true. I was just thinking of ones I could recommend. He has many many many more.
Author:  poulpe [ Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Recently, I read and enjoyed following books:

- 王銘エン：　ヨセ・絶対計算　Best book I have read so far about yose.
- 王銘エン：　碁は殴るか 構えるか Not mind blowing, but definitely entertaining, especially if you like O-Meien style of play.
- 依田紀基：　依田ノート A bit chatty and redundant here and there but there's a lot of good stuff in it.
Author:  ez4u [ Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
If you have an iPad (or and iPhone but I have some difficulty in imaging that it works that well) or now even a PC you may want to start with the Nihon Kiin's "Go Books" app and a copy of Gekkan Go World from the Nihon Kiin. It is much cheaper (JPY 700 or even free at the moment with the PC service) than importing some books. It will give you a range of articles that would help you decide what sorts of materials you would enjoy in Japanese.
Author:  Splatted [ Wed May 01, 2013 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Go Books: Reccomendations please
Thanks for the replies everyone. I have lot's of questions but I'll see how many remain after I've looked up all the books you mentioned. By the way, I didn't mean to say that I'm not at all interested in game commentaries, just that I'm more interested in theory books, so if there is one that you think is particularly good feel free to mention it.

John Fairbairn wrote:
This is indeed an interesting book, but the text is important
...
A better book for most people who can cope with Japanese


These two comments have left me a bit confused. The first one seems to imply you are trying recommend a book which won't not strain my Japanese (which is unnecessary because I'm up for a challenge even if my language skills aren't), but the second one seems to contradict that.

ez4u wrote:
If you have an iPad (or and iPhone but I have some difficulty in imaging that it works that well) or now even a PC you may want to start with the Nihon Kiin's "Go Books" app and a copy of Gekkan Go World from the Nihon Kiin. It is much cheaper (JPY 700 or even free at the moment with the PC service) than importing some books. It will give you a range of articles that would help you decide what sorts of materials you would enjoy in Japanese.


Free!? :bow:

I'll see if I can get it working on lubuntu. :blackeye:
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