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OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
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Author:  JuliusGo [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
Hi everyone,

this is my first post and I just recently started playing go. I can visit a local go club in my city, but mostly I play online at the moment. I signed up for OGS and had a brief look at some other Go-Servers.

I've been doing some research, but most of the information I found on server comparisons seems very outdated. I am happy with OGS, it has all the features I could ask for, the interface is clean, the people friendly and I have the feeling development is still very much active. When I looked at alternatives most seemed visually less appealing and required Java or a standalone client, which is a hassle when playing on other's systems. Here comes my gripe I guess: OGS seems to have a rather low amount of players. I'm not sure, but I get the feeling a lot of the community prefers other servers, but I cannot fathom for what reason? It'd be great if someone with experience on multiple servers could enlighten me.

On another note (not immediately only related to online go) I've wondered about the ranking system in go. If my goal would be to become SDK or Shodan or any arbitrary level, when could I say I achieved it. When a ranking algorithm on a site tells me so? Or do I need to play a tournament for some institution to certify that rank? If it's relevant: I live in Europe.

Thanks for your time and best regards

Julius
Author:  daal [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
OGS is a relatively new server which is probably the main reason its player base isn't larger. Usually though, when I log in there are about 500 players online, which is more than a few. Other servers, being more established do have larger player bases (I'd say KGS typically has about double the amount that OGS has) and also some other advantages. KGS for example has a teaching ladder room, and many users have been there for a while and are comfortable using the review tools. There are also national rooms, so if you are more comfortable conversing in another language, it's pretty easy to find other speakers.

Ratings are basically only valid for a particular server or organization, but although the correlation is not exact, from a beginner's eye view they are not wildly divergent (with the possible exception of some of the lower ranks on some Asian servers, where meeting a "sandbagger" (someone who is significantly stronger than their rank) is not uncommon. In any case, if you want a more official rank, you can join your national go federation and get a rank according to the standards of the European Go Federation (EGF), but that really needn't be your first concern.
Author:  HermanHiddema [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
JuliusGo wrote:
I'm not sure, but I get the feeling a lot of the community prefers other servers, but I cannot fathom for what reason?


Momentum. OGS is new. Other servers have a large existing player base for whom there is no incentive to switch. They installed the client, java, or whatever else they needed and they are familiar with the interface. They can get a game when they want, so why should they switch? Sure, if you're new OGS is a much more appealing option, but most people don't care enough to switch. They'll have to familiarize themselves with a new interface, they lose their game/rating history they lose their friend list, etc, etc. More generally, why do people still use <Any Software Written 10 Years Ago>? Because it works for them and they don't care enough to upgrade.
Author:  skydyr [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
One caveat with OGS is that a lot of the userbase transitioned over from the old non-realtime OGS and used it for correspondence games, so the number of available live games doesn't correspond very well to the number of online users. I think this is changing, but I'm not sure how quickly.

That said, I love online correspondence games, as it's a great way to think about go when you have 5 minutes at the bus stop, or whenever.
Author:  goTony [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
My feeling is that it is slowly growing and more and more live games are popping up. It wont eclipse KGS for some time. But it is a nice place to play.
Author:  xed_over [ Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoServers
Author:  S2W [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
JuliusGo wrote:
I am happy with OGS, it has all the features I could ask for, the interface is clean, the people friendly and I have the feeling development is still very much active. When I looked at alternatives most seemed visually less appealing and required Java or a standalone client, which is a hassle when playing on other's systems. Here comes my gripe I guess: OGS seems to have a rather low amount of players. I'm not sure, but I get the feeling a lot of the community prefers other servers, but I cannot fathom for what reason? It'd be great if someone with experience on multiple servers could enlighten me.

I have an account on ogs - but my ability to play there is limited (due to family commitments playing on anything other than an ipod is pretty much impossible - and while you can play on ogs - the misclicks - ouch. That said from everything I've seen it would be my site of choice if I could play there - the community aspect is particularly attractive.

But I like playing on other servers too - each has a different style of play (agressive/defensive, territorial/influential) and a different level of play (relative to rank) - it's good to mix it up a bit so you don't always experience the same/similar style.

In particular the amount of time for the game (for me at least) has a big effect on my play. This means on Dragon Go Server (a correspondence go server) my rank is significantly higher than on IGS. I believe that this is beneficial for my overall rank - on dgs I get to see better quality moves, on igs I get to play more games.

I also play on wbaduk - this lets me have an account for when I want a casual game or want to try out something new.

Quote:
On another note (not immediately only related to online go) I've wondered about the ranking system in go. If my goal would be to become SDK or Shodan or any arbitrary level, when could I say I achieved it. When a ranking algorithm on a site tells me so?

If I'm telling someone else I let them know I'm an "x kyu on igs". For live games this usually allows us determine the handicap pretty accurately (and after a few wins/losses we adjust accordingly anyway). This is also the rank I use internally to track my own progress. I don't see why using ogs would be any better/worse as a baseline.

Edit:
In case you are wondering igs, dgs and wbaduk all have free ipod apps I am so cheap
Author:  Uberdude [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
And iOS has a free OGS app too called Safari.
Author:  schultz [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
S2W wrote:
I have an account on ogs - but my ability to play there is limited (due to family commitments playing on anything other than an ipod is pretty much impossible - and while you can play on ogs - the misclicks - ouch. That said from everything I've seen it would be my site of choice if I could play there - the community aspect is particularly attractive.

<snip>

I'm curious about your statement here - OGS is (or at least was in the recent past) known only for it's turn based play, which is personally how I always use it... on my iPod Touch. No problems with misclicks here!

JuliusGo - as for your ranking determination question, you can use whatever server or organization you like. With KGS being the most populous Go server currently, it seems pretty standard for people to use that ranking. But there are plenty that use the other possibilities - national organization rankings (which can take longer to update depending on how often you play in nationally ranked competitions), or the handful of other servers. Really I find it comes down to which location/server you use most regularly, because that should give you the most stable ranking you can use to compare to other people - which in the end is what the ranking is all about.
Author:  Uberdude [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
OGS has had real time play since it merged with nova about a year ago.
Author:  S2W [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
schultz wrote:
I'm curious about your statement here - OGS is (or at least was in the recent past) known only for it's turn based play, which is personally how I always use it... on my iPod Touch. No problems with misclicks there.

As Überdude noted it has live and turn based now. Truth be told I hadn't discovered the click and confirm option for the one semiserious game that I played there so I should go back and give it another shot.

Update: I'm still not a fan of ogs on the ipod for live games. It's difficult/distracting to deal with the chat and the end of game counting was just a mess. I think I came across as a bit of a troll at the end because I kept marking the wrong stones and didn't say more than hi. iPad might be fine though.

Überdude wrote:
And iOS has a free OGS app too called Safari

Why do you think I tried it out? ;)
Author:  Drew [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
schultz wrote:
With KGS being the most populous Go server currently


Surely Tygem has many more?
Author:  schultz [ Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
Uberdude wrote:
OGS has had real time play since it merged with nova about a year ago.

Maybe "recent past" indicated too recently.
Drew wrote:
schultz wrote:
With KGS being the most populous Go server currently


Surely Tygem has many more?

Apparently I need to couch everything I say in qualifiers. I was talking English Go servers, but maybe that's not even true. Did some looking and from what I found on Sensei's Wbaduk is supposed to be the one with the most active users on at a given time. I don't know for sure, though.

Thanks for bringing the critiques. ;)
Author:  dracflamloc [ Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
I play OGS exclusively. KGS requires jumping through hoops and installing a version of java that is riddled with security holes. I never really have an issue finding live games on OGS. If nobody joins your games, send a message in the chat room and someone usually accepts.
Author:  skydyr [ Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OGS and other Go Servers - Some Questions
dracflamloc wrote:
I play OGS exclusively. KGS requires jumping through hoops and installing a version of java that is riddled with security holes. I never really have an issue finding live games on OGS. If nobody joins your games, send a message in the chat room and someone usually accepts.


As far as I know, you can run the KGS app using the latest Java. You just need to add a security exception for cgoban2.
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