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Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 2016)
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13774		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Bonobo [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 2016)
Image
(Image linked from the Japanese Web site for this match (and, sadly, only a part of the header image which, IMO, is nicely designed).)

I’ve developed a liking for these polls :lol:

You can find all the information needed (plus further links) in Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo) and Zen team to hold press conference November 9

Poll closes 2016-11-18, one day before the match begins :)


(Sadly, it’s apparently impossible to hide the results until after the poll is closed … I’d have preferred to have everybody vote unbiased by other voters’ decisions)

Enjoy :)
________________

USGO page for game 1: http://www.usgo.org/news/2016/11/cho-de ... ght-at-11/

SGF with Michael Redmond’s comments: http://www.usgo.org/news/wp-content/upl ... edmond.sgf

Video with Myungwan Kim’s comments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erUj3iO5ybg
Author:  pookpooi [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
It's even harder to guess than AlphaGo match when this match doesn't occur at the top go scene.

In AlphaGo match I'm too confident in DeepMind so I put 5-0. (Also at first I thought DeepMind is very sly, they keep AlphaGo strength a secret to catch Lee Sedol and his fan off guard, but after the match end I realized that they're just a very nice team that just want to surprise Lee Sedol)

Now Zen's strength is pretty clear, Cho Chikun can look at many Zen 12.4's game records and will be able to prepare to attack its weakness, the longer time will also help him.
But in the end Zen will win 3-0, that's my prediction.
Author:  yoyoma [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Well I managed to mess up and vote 2-1 Chikun instead of 2-1 Zen. :oops:
Author:  Bonobo [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
yoyoma wrote:
Well I managed to mess up and vote 2-1 Chikun instead of 2-1 Zen. :oops:

Oh :lol: I’ve edited the original post to make sure that the part about clicking carefully won’t be overlooked again. Also, pls see my PM.
Author:  Gomoto [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
yoyomo, you are not alone ;-)
Author:  Bonobo [ Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Nevermind, everybody:

I have changed the poll settings so that you can now correct your vote.
Author:  DrStraw [ Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Can you make it multiple select instead of multiple choice? I really don't know how to vote.
Author:  Bonobo [ Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
DrStraw wrote:
Can you make it multiple select instead of multiple choice? I really don't know how to vote.

:lol: I could, but I won’t :)
Author:  johnsmith [ Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Interesting fact is that v12.4 with some CPU/GPU power had beaten chinese top 10 pro on KGS - according to some rumors. Current version 12.8, which is using only CPU, has the rating equivalent to v12.5 which used both CPU and GPU resources!

P.S. sourse - CGOS: http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/standings.html
Author:  pookpooi [ Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Just when I think 12.8 is strong enough, 12.9 is already on the way.
I wonder if Zen will receive professional honorary and get ranked in goratings like AlphaGo.
Anyway, when Zen release new commercial version next year, all go association have to take cheating very seriously, it just happened in Shogi.
Author:  pookpooi [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Zen v12.9 seems a little bit weaker than v12.8 but don't worry, v13.0 is already on cgos. It'll be either v12.8 or v13.0 at this point. They're both clearly stronger than v12.4 they showed in press conference.
Author:  sparky314 [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Looks like on CGOS, they're playing without the GPU (1c0g). Last zen that played with a GPU was 12.5n. Might give a significant strength boost with the gpu, if their code still can utilize it.

Edit: Need to read posts on previous page...looks like that was already mentioned.
Author:  Satorian [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
I wish some of those engine improvements could be shared with current users in a patch. Given its price, I wouldn't mindsome post-release support.
Author:  Kirby [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
I don't know much about Zen, so I didn't vote. But at move 83 of game 1, I feel some confidence toward Cho Chikun - maybe he'll win. OTOH, I favored Lee Sedol in game 1 against AlphaGo until White's sharp move on the right.
Author:  pookpooi [ Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
I lost the bet already ;(
Author:  Bonobo [ Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
pookpooi wrote:
I lost the bet already ;(

Heh :-D

I find it quite interesting how—I think for the first time in my life—I’m with the majority (or rather: the majority is with me :roll: )
Author:  Uberdude [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Bonobo, if you mean you voted for 2-1 to Zen (as I did) then you are with the plurality not the majority.
Author:  Bonobo [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Uberdude wrote:
Bonobo, if you mean you voted for 2-1 to Zen (as I did) then you are with the plurality not the majority.

Oh, dang (and thanks!) … I fear I don't quite understand the difference; please remember that, while I’ve been learning English since age of four, I am not a native speaker, and I had to leave the EN-speaking environment at age of 11, so I’m somewhat stuck with the language of a child.

(Without looking anything up now …) I always thought that “plurality” means simply a spectrum of different [things], and that “majority” means that group which has, in this plurality, the most members.

Cordially, Tom

<edit>
added these lines to opening post:

USGO page for game 1: http://www.usgo.org/news/2016/11/cho-de ... ght-at-11/
SGF with Michael Redmond’s comments: http://www.usgo.org/news/wp-content/upl ... edmond.sgf
Video with Myungwan Kim’s comments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erUj3iO5ybg
</edit>
Author:  Mike Novack [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
Not something most native English speaking children younger than 12 could distinguish. Some of them could get "majority" right, but few younger than that "pluraliy"

majority ---- over half
plurality --- more than any other alternative. If there are several alternatives, could be a
small fraction of the whole.
Author:  Gomoto [ Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Betting Office: CHO CHIKUN vs. ZEN (19., 20. +23. Nov 20
In germany it is different:

(Mehrheit)
relative majority = plurality
absolute majority = majority
simple majority = more votes than all others together
qualified majority = more than a distinct number

By the way, what are you thinking about the first two games ;-)
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