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 Post subject: Physical AI go board!
Post #1 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Hi All,

Since COVID it has been hard to play with others face-to-face, so I have decided to purchase an AI go board to play with me.
I initially found this board on TaoBao https://world.taobao.com/item/584032654 ... 516581N6YH
However, there has been several cases where I end up not receiving items I purchased from TaoBao shipping to U.S. and customer support did nothing to help, so I was hesitant to purchase the board from TaoBao. Later I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo-kI9Ncq_U this video reviewing the board and provided a way to buy it from a Korean vendor KIBA, I contacted them and they are willing to ship to U.S., their price is a bit higher than TaoBao price but I felt safer going through KIBA.

Anyways, I ordered it about 3 weeks ago and it arrived today!

The board interface came default in English, but I think you can also change it to Chinese or Korean, it is super simple to setup, I was able to start playing with the AI within minutes, so far I only played a game with level 3 AI and I have to say that I am super happy with the purchase!!

The build quality is not bad, the board itself is quite heavy and feels very sturdy, the stone is made of plastic but has some good weight on it.

Here are some photos of the board!


Last edited by chen1664 on Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Physical AI go board!
Post #2 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:28 pm 
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Sorry I can't get the image to go smaller...

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 Post subject: Re: Physical AI go board!
Post #3 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:31 pm 
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Here are the photos

Box
Image

Unboxing
Image

Items included
Image

Playing a game with AI at level 3
Image

Reviewing the game with AI
Image


Last edited by chen1664 on Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

This post by chen1664 was liked by: fireproof
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 Post subject: Re: Physical AI go board!
Post #4 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:21 am 
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It looks pretty cool!

I'm guessing you can use to review games as well, right? Can you share a bit more about the software? Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Physical AI go board!
Post #5 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:20 pm 
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chen1664 wrote:
Sorry I can't get the image to go smaller...

Thanks for the posts and congratulations on the acquisition. When this thing first showed up about a year ago, I was hoping some enterprising soul would figure out a way to import a few hundred of the units. Certainly a wholesale deal could be worked out with the maker or with KIBA.

Resizing photos here is a bit of a chore, true. You can post using any of several free photo link sites. I use Imgur.

Have fun and give us some updates every now and then. Lots of folks REALLY want to know how this thing works and what it's like to use it for casual games, study, and replay.

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I play go, I ride a recumbent, of course I use Macintosh.

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 Post subject: Re: Physical AI go board!
Post #6 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:55 pm 
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bogiesan wrote:
You can post using any of several free photo link sites. I use Imgur.


Thanks for the tips on posting photos! I have updated them to a more appropriate size.

I don't think KIBA makes much from my order, the item itself is about 6kg and looking at the UPS label they ship directly from Hong Kong instead of Korea and the shipping fee on the label is about $250.

As for using it to review, I was surprised how easy it is to use for review. After you play a game with AI, the game is automatically saved to the device and you can start the review process right after, at any given point if you want to see the recommended moves you can hit the timer button and recommended moves will light up on the board with its winning rate showing on the mini display. You can start to explore different variations that the AI recommended by placing the stone on the recommended location (the sequence goes on about 5-10 moves), after you are done exploring the moves you simply remove the explorations stone so the board it back to its original state before the exploration then it will continue your game.

You can also use this to study games that you played somewhere else, I haven't figured out how to import game records into the board but I am sure there is a way to do so. You can also replay the game you want to review with the board and it will save the game for you and you can start reviewing after.

I still haven't explore all the features that this board provides, but briefly going through its features it pretty much has everything that one can hope for. I will list the features below.

1. Play online other clients (I haven't figured out this one but I think you can play with Tygem and many other online go server)

2. Play locally with friends with the built in physical timer

3. Play with AI (9*9) (13*13) (19*19)
Difficulty levels:
Rookie -> Beginner -> 1 to 16 -> 5D -> Advanced (Strong 5D) -> Senior -> Super Senior (Profession 6D and up)

You simply pick a difficulty and color and start playing, AI will light up the location for where it wants to play. I think you can also pick a move for AI instead of playing on what it wants.

I am not sure how each of these level translate to AGA rating, but I am sure there is a right difficulty for everyone.

So far I have only played with level 3 and 4, I can't really tell the difference in strength between the two, both level has a decent opening and mid game but end games for both level were terrible, it felt like 2 different person playing the game :shock: For the past few games that I played AI tend to go for Moyo than Territory.

4. Opening training
Haven't really explore much but I think it will teach you different openings for (20, 30, 40, 50) moves.
Roughly how it works is you start by picking an opening you want to explore and the AI will start playing with you at that position and it will grade you on how well you did. And later on I think you can review each move for why AI gave you a certain score.

5. Joseki Dictionary
6. Joseki Analysis
This one shows win rate of different Joseki and how to play after the Joseki

7. Common Pattern study
Many different invasion/reduction pattern study
Common position study
Middle game Joseki...etc

8. Life and Death problems, Tesuji Problems...etc
This one honestly I would still prefer doing it in book, it's a pain to setup the position, specially for easier questions you will probably spend more time setting up than solving questions..

9. Huge collection of profession replays
It is sorted by player and most players has at least hundreds if not thousands of replay (you can also see AI recommended moves at any time during your replay), and it is always getting the latest replays (have to connect to internet)


I am just covering the features that I see at the first glance, I am sure there are tons of other features at I am not covering.

One thing that I want to note for English speaking player is that although most of the interface has been translated to English, some still remains in Chinese, one example is that all the profession player's name are in Chinese.

Overall I think the software is very intuitive to use, it works just as you expected to work. If you all have any questions or want me to go more in depth with a particular feature, feel free to ask me and I will try my best to answer them!

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 Post subject: Re: Physical AI go board!
Post #7 Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:21 pm 
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Some questions that came up on facebook that i think remain unanswered: how does the computer know the stones have been placed, are the stones magnetic or do they have NFC chips, what are the two silver mushrooms, as a go set is it fun to use with another h7man player, and what was your total price inclduding shipping?

Enjoy your new machine. Post more of your observations when you get a chance.

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I play go, I ride a recumbent, of course I use Macintosh.

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 Post subject: Re: Physical AI go board!
Post #8 Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:03 pm 
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bogiesan wrote:
Some questions that came up on facebook that i think remain unanswered: how does the computer know the stones have been placed, are the stones magnetic or do they have NFC chips


I don't know the underneath technology that's inside the stone, but I don't think it is magnetic since I don't feel any magnet pulling when placing the stone.

Some interesting points that I found out about the stones:

1. It is able to detect the difference between Black and White stone, if you place a wrong color stone during a match it will make a sound to tell you that it's wrong.
2. It is a single convex stone and the computer will only read the flat side of the stone
3. Stone doesn't need to be place in exact center for computer to detect, you can place your stone roughly around the spot.
4. Sometimes it won't recognize the stone, if this happens you can just lift the stone and place it again (this rarely happens, maybe once every few games)
5. Computer supports stone dragging, you can place the stone around the area and drag it to the spot you want

bogiesan wrote:
what are the two silver mushrooms, as a go set is it fun to use with another h7man player,


The two silver mushrooms are the timer buttons, you can play with another human player either online or face-to-face. For both cases if you are playing under timer mode, you press the silver button to indicate that it's the end of your turn, just like how you would do it with a physical clock.

There are a few different ways that you can play online:
1. Play with another player that also has the board
2. Play with another player that is playing with their app
3. Play online with people on Go servers, however, this is only supported under Chinese interface. There are a few Go Servers to pick from, I was able to connect to Tygem but still haven't figured out how to actually use it to play.

bogiesan wrote:
and what was your total price inclduding shipping?


Total price is a bit high, it was $950 total (I saw other people buying it earlier for $850-$950, I think they keep increasing the price because people are willing to pay for them...). If you order directly with the Chinese company I think it would probably save you about $200 but you will have to communicate with them in Chinese and trust Taobao international customer service.

Was it worth the money and would I recommend this for others?

Currently I own:
1 piece table kaya Goban + Hyuga Clamshell stone from Kuroki
Goban with leg + Clamshell stone that I got from local antique store

All of my other sets cost more than the AI set... but they only get use when I am studying Joseki or following online videos or occasionally playing face-to-face with friends.

I would recommend this board if you are like me who play mostly online but want the experience of playing on an actual board. I also found playing with AI very relaxing, I can purely enjoy playing the game itself and try out new moves instead of having to worry about winning or losing. I also own several Go AI software, but I found them not as fun as this AI set, since when playing on the computer or phone I always feel like I am playing against a machine, with this AI set I actually sometime forget that I am playing against a machine.

From practicality stand point if I can only have a set I would keep the AI set. Of course you can't beat the experience playing on a kaya board but I found myself using the AI set a lot more and I foresee that it will completely replace my need for the other two boards.

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 Post subject: Re: Physical AI go board!
Post #9 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:33 pm 
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Quote:
There are a few different ways that you can play online:
1. Play with another player that also has the board
2. Play with another player that is playing with their app
3. Play online with people on Go servers, however, this is only supported under Chinese interface. There are a few Go Servers to pick from, I was able to connect to Tygem but still haven't figured out how to actually use it to play.


Have you been able to connect to a Go server and play matches? Because that would be my main reason to get this.

What do you.mean with their app, what app?

What go servers are supported?

Thanks

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Post #10 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:42 pm 
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Sakuragi wrote:
Have you been able to connect to a Go server and play matches? Because that would be my main reason to get this.
Thanks


Yes, I was able to connect and play on Tygem China Go server.

Here is a photo playing on Tygem.

Image


Sakuragi wrote:
What do you.mean with their app, what app?
Thanks

I think the company that built this board also has a cellphone app that you can download to play Go online and your board can connect to people playing with that app (I haven't test this out since I am not interested in downloading the app).


Sakuragi wrote:
What go servers are supported?

Currently on my device it shows 5 Go servers, 4 are in Chinese and Tygem China.
I think this feature is currently meant for people who knows Chinese, if you don't know Chinese then you will need some help setting up connection.

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Post #11 Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:20 am 
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Here is an unboxing video with this board by Yoon Young Sun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo-kI9Ncq_U

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Post #12 Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:19 pm 
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I missed your replies while L19 was offline. Thanks for the continuing story. Hope you will enjoy it tremendously.

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Post #13 Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:42 pm 
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can the board be updated? the android computer it comes with? to future proof it?

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Post #14 Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:01 pm 
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does it have wifi or do you have to use the rj45 socket to connect online?

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Post #15 Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:19 pm 
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Sakuragi wrote:
does it have wifi or do you have to use the rj45 socket to connect online?

You can connect it with WiFi, however you will need to connect the board with power since there is no battery.

Sakuragi wrote:
can the board be updated? the android computer it comes with? to future proof it?

The Go software itself can be updated anytime they have a new release.

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