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Floor goban wood preference?
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Author:  cjsogn [ Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Floor goban wood preference?
Hello!

I have recently decided to invest in a decent floor goban. It must be at least 6" thick.

The two most important qualities I value in the goba are:

1. durability
2. longevity

After that comes regular aesthetic pleasantness.
Right now I am mostly standing between Agathis and shin kaya. What are your thoughts on the differences and advantages of these woods in a floor goban?

Thanks!
Author:  Erythen [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
Hello,
I'd recommend Katsura, it's the best all round wood for the cost but unfortunately it rarely comes in sizes larger than 4 sun (about 4.75 inches).

I don't recommend Shin-Kaya, it is not durable and tends to has a tenancy to warp, the only advantage is the cost. Agathis is a good and durable wood but is very hard and may not be suitable for the stones (depending on the kind you'll use).

Ultimately the absolute best (in all three points) is Japanese Kaya but that's rather expensive, especially in the size you want. An alternative is Chinese Kaya, the wood isn't as durable but is still very high quality (in comparison to Shin-Kaya); especially if you buy from Yahoo Auctions Japan . . .

http://openuser.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp ... kayakoubou

The manufacture above will has some excellent Chinese Kaya boards at very low prices but make sure your buying a goban and not Shogiban. Sadly, unless you're in Japan, you'll have to go through a middleman website.

Anyway, long story short, if it comes down to a choice between Shin-Kaya (Alaskan Spruce) and Agathis; I'd say go with the Agathis.
Author:  schwartzseer [ Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
To pick up on Erythen's Katsura recommendation, I would agree that Katsura is a good value as it is a hardwood that is less prone to warp and crack [insert cavets regarding proper aging of woods here ;-]. There is a possible downside in that Katsura darkens quite a bit over time, so you'd have to be willing to accept this as a trade-off. As far as availability, I have seen a Japanese Katsura floor goban with board size of 5 1/2 inches (legs 5 inches even, for a total height of 10 1/2 inches) offered for sale by Yutopian: https://www.yutopian.com/yutop/cat?product=TJ135&category=T. Yutopian also offers Korean-made Agathis floor gobans of varying heights for less money. HTH...
Author:  bogiesan [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
Durability, longevity, grain patter, color, design and manufacturing aesthetics... They're all negotiable but will become meaningless as you start to shop seriously for a traditional go board.

I believe your single deciding factor will turn out to be your budget. Are you going to spend $100,000, $10,000 or $1,000?
Author:  csobod [ Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
bogiesan wrote:
I believe your single deciding factor will turn out to be your budget. Are you going to spend $100,000, $10,000 or $1,000?

If you're thinking about spending $100,000 on a goban, I'd seriously recommend taking a deep breath and saying to yourself out loud "I'm about to spend $100,000 on a piece of wood." If you still have the resolve and wherewithal to do so, then proceed.
Author:  tchan001 [ Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
Perhaps $100,000 would be chump change for someone willing to spend that amount for a piece of wood.
Author:  BigDango [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
My thoughts pertaining to your preferences & the woods mentioned thus far:

Agathis -> This is the ideal wood if your preferences are in the order of Durability & Longevity -> Cost -> Aesthetic Value. It's not nearly as pretty as Kaya, in fact the top will likely be painted. However it still has a nice sound, and will stand up to the test of time. As others mentioned, it can be an issue w/ shell/slate or any stone prone to chipping. You can say "well I'll be careful" but eh... you always will seem to find an opponent who forgets, or you will :p

Shin Kaya -> It really is as soft as everybody says it is. It will dent. Some people like dents though, or the look of it. It will get a "used look" fairly quickly. Again you can take care but eh... it will happen. They do look pretty but you'll be constantly worried about denting them so you may never hear their sound :P Still some people like dents....

Katsura ->Not bad but as was said you will have a problem finding the size you want

Chinese Kaya -> Tends to warp, then crack, then chip.

If you have a friend that is handy, or you are handy, there a goodly number of other woods to use / look into. Read this if you have not:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?MaterialGoban

But bottom line, as it sounds like you did the research already, Agathis is going to meet your needs and be readily available.
Author:  tchan001 [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
BigDango wrote:
Chinese Kaya -> Tends to warp, then crack, then chip.

Is this from personal experience?
If the info is taken from the Kiseido website, please note the words of another person who used to sell gobans.

viewtopic.php?p=14186#p14186
Quote:
From what I've seen, I believe that torreya grandis is so similar to nucifera as to be indistinguishable, and that the cracking and warping are a result of some Goban makers' rushed processes, which don't allow the wood sufficient time to cure. Kaya of both subspecies takes many years to cure properly, and it's a particular skill to the older Goban makers.
Author:  gowan [ Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
It's interesting how the image goods produced changes. After WWII, until maybe 1970, Japanese goods were considered junk. "Made in Japan" implied poor quality. Of course that applied to mass produced goods for export. In China you can buy any level of quality you want, from poorly done cheap mass goods to the highest quality of craftsmanship. Same applies to go boards, whatever the material. There is a lot of "kaya" in China and manufacturers who put profit above quality will produce kaya go boards made from wood from younger trees that has not aged sufficiently. Such goods will warp and crack and have coarse grain. But the price will be low. If you want very high level of quality you have to pay for it, even in China. Maybe less than from Japan but still expensive. Your problem as a consumer is how do you know the history of what you are buying?
Author:  tchan001 [ Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
If you plan to buy a good quality goban from China, you'd probably ask around on some of the Chinese forums where weiqi enthusiasts congregate. Ask someone who knows Chinese to help you ask around on these types of forums about where you might be able to get good quality gobans.

From what I can tell, Chinese go enthusiasts who seek the highest qualities they can afford normally prefer go equipment from reputable Japanese manufacturers such as Kurokigoishi :)
For example, check out one of the frequent advertisers in the Chinese magazine Weiqi Tiandi called Benshou (www.benshou.com) which carries quite a grand selection of high price equipment. On this website, you can see some Kurokigoishi items you don't normally see even on the Japanese manufacturer's own website.

As for myself, I highly recommend gobans made from Chinese kaya wood manufactured by good Japanese craftsmen. Such items are often available through Japanese auction sites such as Yahoo Japan.
Author:  bogiesan [ Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
cjsogn wrote:
The two most important qualities I value in the goba are:
1. durability
2. longevity
After that comes regular aesthetic pleasantness.


These are related; you will get all three in a good floor-style board. You will pay for these features, of course.

I have a few observations for you. I am not a skilled go player but I've been at it for almost forty years and I've played go on a broad range of gear. Durability was never a factor for any of the go board purchase decisions I know of. The player simply wanted a good board, and, short of uncontrollable disasters, was fully capable of taking care of a nice board. Longevity was not a factor because folks assumed they'd replace or supplement their go collections with new equipment as budget and opportunity presented themselves. (That's how I have acquired my four go boards.)

In all the go board purchases I have witnessed or, as founder of the Boise Go Club, have facilitated, decisions were based on opportunity; the right piece was either available at the right time or a serendipitous encounter resulted in an interesting and gratifying transaction. Only a few of these were disappointments but they were relatively inexpensive blunders. The pursuit continued but these failures made it possible for others to obtain a go board at a reasonable price.

The "right piece" was always a variable concept, as you can imagine. Some of the men I know who purchased go equipment did the typical male seek-and-acquire thing--shop hard, make a decision, don't look back. Others set a budget and waited. Others set a target for wood species or origin and waited. The few women I know who made go purchases worked strictly on the aesthetics. Money was, of course, a factor but the decisions were always based on how the board looked.

I hope you had a good time researching and purchasing your floor-style board. I doubt it will be your last or only go board.
Author:  BigDango [ Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
tchan001 wrote:
BigDango wrote:
Chinese Kaya -> Tends to warp, then crack, then chip.

Is this from personal experience?
If the info is taken from the Kiseido website, please note the words of another person who used to sell gobans.

viewtopic.php?p=14186#p14186
Quote:
From what I've seen, I believe that torreya grandis is so similar to nucifera as to be indistinguishable, and that the cracking and warping are a result of some Goban makers' rushed processes, which don't allow the wood sufficient time to cure. Kaya of both subspecies takes many years to cure properly, and it's a particular skill to the older Goban makers.


ime people who have bought boards marketed as "Chinese Kaya" have had problems w/ the boards literally falling apart. They warp, then crack, then chip.

Now if there is a dealer that uses wood from China, that comes out awesome. Then that's good to know. I will be less afraid of the term going forward.

For me personally, Agathis, Kaya & Bamboo are all I have ever bought.

So second hand real world experience? I guess that would be the term. I remember this one dude who got a board off ebay that was marketed as Kaya wood from some place in China. 2 years or so after he bought it, it wouldn't sit on the table right, then a fissure formed, then it started to chip from the crack. I've heard other stories as well.
Author:  tchan001 [ Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Floor goban wood preference?
You might also consider the cut of wood when choosing a goban.
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