Daniel,

Thanks so much for writing this.

I would be happy to do whatever I can to help you help the AGA.

Until this very moment in time, I am unaware that any other AGA officer or board member has ever even acknowledged that anything needs to be overhauled.

As one single board member, I do not know what you will be able to get done. I hope it is a lot.

If your profile has an email attached to it I will email you privately.

Thanks.

_-_-bearzbear

EDIT: No email on ur profile, sent one to ur dailyjoseki address

_-_-[/quote] Just to be clear, there are two board members in this thread, aokun and daniel. They are both being professional.

I'm being unprofessionally rude (with really good justification, I might add), but I'm no board member.

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Occupy Babel!

One board member ran on a platform of improving communication with chapters and visited every state in her region. I think that counts.

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Occupy Babel!

Now I'm very curious as to what it means to be "professionally rude"

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Tactics yes, Tact no...

It means you're a politician.

We need a volunteer to do that. Project ideas don't develop themselves!


Thomas generously donates his time, and pays his own expenses, so very few resources are actually used by this. But I agree that there is a deficit of materials for players stuck in the middle.


Unfortunately, at the moment we are merely switching to a CMS, there isn't going to be a redesign, which we also desperately need. I agree we need to do better PR.



Volunteers needed for the advertising process just as much as the implementation.



IMO, the AGA board is in acceptable condition. The execution of the organization is where the most help seems to be needed.



Just so you know, vash3g is not currently an AGA official. He has done and continues to do a lot of volunteer work for the AGA and he understandably gets a little cranky when people criticize without volunteering.

Also, unless I say otherwise, I'm speaking strictly for myself on this forum, not for the AGA. I realize it's a little risky, but I try not to censor myself too much. I'd like to be the same person I was prior to getting elected to the board. Readers of this forum ought to have had a pretty good idea of who I was before electing me, and I don't want to change on them. I would like to say even more than I do, but unfortunately I'm leery of having my statements used against me. I expect that eventually I'll manage to accidentally say something stupid, but I don't think I've done so yet.

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The thread has taken a turn towards sniping, but I think the original message had some points. Someone has declined to renew their AGA membership because they didn't feel like it was worth it. He identified three items that he received as a member:

E-Journal--nice, but regarded as light on content
The Congress
Tournaments--actually rated tournaments, since the only AGA contribution is the rating

Unless a person is a youth or strong enough to compete in invitational events, that's really all AGA membership gets you. The other comments about how easy it is to raise money, etc show a lack of familiarity with...many things.

The core of the complaint is real--AGA membership doesn't provide much and at least some people feel it's not worth the money. I suspect this is not an isolated opinion, and I hope that the people with decision-making authority take note as they make plans for the future and allocate resources. It's not something that will be fixed overnight, but I hope it will be taken seriously.

And I don't think the original post (which was the only reasonable contribution bearzbear has made) was particularly worthwhile. Bearzbear says he's not getting anything out of the AGA. That's an ok criticism--there have been efforts to think of what the organization could do, but there hasn't been anything like consensus. Everyone seems to have their pet projects, but they're all things that will benefit a few obsessives--e.g. ratings improvements.*

What I find insulting (aside from the silly comment about fund-raising) is this guy's apparent idea that he's communicating with a bunch of idiots. That he can just say "hey guys, things aren't working" and everyone will immediately realize that he's right, and they'll know just what to do about it, and they've just been too dumb to actually think about the problem until now. Like there's some kind of obvious solution, that the lazy bums at the AGA haven't bothered to even try and find.

I'm not even part of the AGA and I find that an insulting frame of mind.

How to be a responsible critic
Here's my challenge to anyone who thinks that they know how the AGA is falling short.

If you think there's a big picture thing that needs to be done, read the many threads on this board about what should be done. See whether people agree with your idea. If they don't, realize that you're basically peddling your pet project. React accordingly. If there is agreement, ask who needs to be involved--is it a single person project, does it need a committee, an army of volunteers? What are the concrete steps? And then propose them. You don't even have to do them, you just have to give an idea of what steps can be taken.

I think there are some good ideas, but I haven't seen anything truly compelling. If you think that's what the AGA needs to do, you need to be building consensus that it's a good idea. Because right now, I think no one knows what the big steps to take are.

The other type of complaints are organizational--people not responding to emails. Fixing that requires specificity. Many people do respond. Some may not. Or maybe some months, things may break down. Fixing that requires either a) feedback to the people who aren't doing their job or b) reorganization, so that responsibilities are more realistic. Please, do give some kind of specific feedback (it can be backchanneled--PM Daniel rather than publicly shaming somebody or whatever).

But if you're not either making the case for big ideas (and saying "hey, we should get professional quality videos" doesn't cut it) or being specific about organization, you're just carping and acting like everyone else is an idiot who can't see the real problem.

PS. A confusion about language, dear sirs. To say something is unprofessionally rude can just mean it's rude in such a way that it's unprofessional. Doesn't imply that there's professional rudeness (One might say Gordon Ramsay is professionally rude, but you might also say he's just being unprofessional and making money. A delicate question indeed). But I'm not a professional (board member) so it's entirely apt.

PPS this is kinda rambling. Sorry.

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Occupy Babel!

Raising money is darn near impossible if the organization that is trying to raise the money is not viewed as "meritorious" and beyond reproach.

Regarding the first, that has much to do with how it operates, and how it is seen in terms of both the public image and how people find it when they interact with it more closely.

Regarding the second, I will leave it to those who are familiar with the present and past issues in the AGA. No need to say more than that.

Based on what Daniel is saying about how difficult it is do actually DO anything, I have to stand by what I said earlier. There is something intrinsically lacking in the nature and/or structure of the organization that prevents it from taking steps that are even simple and basic. Forget about more ambitious actions, even if they would be highly beneficial.

Those who volunteer their time and energy might do well to not confuse their sweat and effort with issues that are preventing the organization from growing and prospering as it should. To use a blunt analogy, the crew on the Titanic worked hard after it hit the iceberg, but the ship still sank and people died. The thing I am trying to focus on is the state of the ship and it's course, not the efforts of specific "crew members".

Marshaling the talents, efforts and even the money of members and those sympathetic to the AGA and Go in the USA is really the task at hand. What I am suggesting is to ask what needs to be changed, what needs to be done in order to make that happen?

If the leadership doesn't even see the need in the first place - which in years past it seems they did not, and if they did were unable to implement much - then there is nothing to do or talk about.

That's one of the principal concepts I've tried to generate a discussion about and an understanding.

_-_-bearzbear

http://beta.usgo.org
All you guys had to do was ask...

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Decisions are made by those who show up.
and possibly those willing to attend secret meetings in ancient basements

Cross tables, rank graphs, a place to upload commented games...
http://agagd.usgo.org/

Prepare to try, find guilty and shoot the messenger.

I just read this:

http://usgo.org/board/ApprovedMinutes/m ... -23-11.pdf

If you have not, you might.

Based on what this says, this is my sincere suggestion:

For the next 12 months;

- eliminate all travel on the $$ of the AGA
- end all projects that are not the Go Congress that require AGA manpower or $$. (peripheral activities like small tourney's and TD's can continue of course)
- stop all expenditures that are not 100% essential to the existence of the AGA.
- apologize profusely to the Koreans and beg them to accept apologies on the behalf of the AGA and the American Go Community at large, and hope they will let us participate in 12 months
- go with whatever is done or not done on the website, pay that off immediately, stop work.
- spend all efforts and time on reorganizing internally
- apologize to the American Go community at large about the state of the AGA and tell them in specific terms how the AGA will be resurrected anew.
- give updates as specific mileposts have been met.
- REACH OUT TO the community at large for EXPERTISE, and input on fundraising and organization.
- Members of existing committees should submit letters of resignation, regardless of their re-appointment. (see comments in the pdf about comittees in disarray - no natural leaders? end.)
- If the President can not or is not able to take charge in this manner, someone else needs to. However it gets done.

This is the short list. Bad news? Better news if the organization gets organized.

_-_-bearzbear

You may note that the KPMC issue has been discussed a bit on these boards. Suffice to say that while the overall reaction was extremely critical of the AGA, your "unique" perspective did not win the day.
I don't regret being rude. I regret not being more rude!

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Occupy Babel!

The ability to upload commented games is either not well known or not something people care about. I'd like to assume it's the former (at least since people do upload games to the European Go Database).

I'd suggest that there be an ejournal article about it, and that there be a habit of uploading the games that are broadcast to the USGO accounts on KGS.

It's also not obvious how you can see the game records that are currently included in the database. Is there a quick way to view that?

I'll pass both suggestions on to the ejournal and database manager in a day or two--just putting this out there so y'all can comment.

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Occupy Babel!

Just a post to those who are reading this thread. I support the AGA through both my time and money and I appreciate all the time and energy the AGA volunteers are putting into the organization. I would recommend cherry picking the decent ideas from this thread and ignoring the unhelpful or ill-timed suggestions, of which there are many.

I also appreciate the way in which the current AGA representatives have handled themselves in this conversation. Very well done.

I know from experience that it is disheartening and very demotivating to hear (read) the type of accusations that are happening in this thread. Please know that from my perspective only a small number of the issues from OP that have been brought up are accurate and almost none of the recommended solutions seem to me well thought out, effective or practical.

My breaking point was the "disband and stop everything" (not an actual quote) idea. I applaud the fact that your (AGA representatives) breaking point is further afield than mine

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Thank you.

This guy is a truly amazing troll. I haven't seen anyone quite this polished in years. Can we please keep him around so that we can all observe and hone our own trollery?

I think a lot of strength in trolling is the willingness to change the focus and ignore questions that are hard to answer. Also being willing to contradict previous comments and bog down the discussion to arguing over minor details :p

Some kind of troll sabaki techniques illluck?

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