Life In 19x19 :: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to

I would really love to see some avatars that disturb you so much that you need to hide them...

What do you do at a real life tournament if your opponent's t-shirt offends you?

The avatars feature on KGS is great, but occasionally you might meet someone whose avatar disturbs you or even offends you in some way. For sure it's possible to stick a piece of paper on your monitor or to shift the playing screen to the right, but there are downsides to those methods.

I made a request on the SL KGS Wishlist for an option to hide the opponent's avatar. Hopefully WMS will grant this one, but...

In the meantime, I have found a reasonably good solution, which you might want to use. Look for the free program called "Window on Top". It enables you to select any program window and keep it on top, even while using a window beneath it. Then just make a small blank window with any program (I use WordPad), and then you can slide it over any image you find distracting or offensive.

Everybody's happy: the opponent can have their avatar, and you don't have to look at it.

It is not unreasonable but is it reasonable?
Step by slipery step we allow people to avert their eyes from things that are entirely reasonable in our society, until they start creating their own strange worlds inside their heads.
Somewere we have to put our feet down and say: If you want to live in our society you well have to accept 'this'.
Of course what 'this' is, is always a question of negotiations and compromise, but a KGS avatar?

Tami wrote:

So it is reasonable to force me to see a picture that offends, irritates or distracts me while I am trying to play go? I hope WMS implements a KGS soundtrack featuring fingernails scraping chalkboard that can't be switched off so that you can try it on for size!

I am not against people expressing themselves; but I don't think it is fair to force an image into somebody else's space.

Reason always has to be balanced with doubt, but yes, I think it is reasonable in this case.
Someday you will meet someone who thinks it obscene for a woman to show her uncovered face in a public space.
I want you to remember this argument when that happens. Everyone has to compromise.
If you are more sensitive than "normal" people, you will simply have to take the suitable measures yourself, which you also have done.
I'm only arguing that it should not be made easy for people to shield themself from the normalizing influence of society.

...Still, when you are serious about anything some people will tell you that you speak nonsense and are ludicrous. ...

I'm saying reason is a very dangerous thing, and that every action we take or refrain from taking has far reaching implications. Sometimes implications we wouldn't imagine in our worst nightmares....I will not compromise on this.

....but he should understand that whatever decision, action or inaction, it will be burdened with moral guilt. There is no way of escaping it....

Philip Traum wrote:

Ooh, a slippery slope argument! That works both ways

Right now, you only wish to force on Tami what KGS avatar she must watch. But step by slippery step, it'll move towards forcing children to watch hardcore gore and porn.

Author:	Tami [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:	How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
The avatars feature on KGS is great, but occasionally you might meet someone whose avatar disturbs you or even offends you in some way. For sure it's possible to stick a piece of paper on your monitor or to shift the playing screen to the right, but there are downsides to those methods. I made a request on the SL KGS Wishlist for an option to hide the opponent's avatar. Hopefully WMS will grant this one, but... In the meantime, I have found a reasonably good solution, which you might want to use. Look for the free program called "Window on Top". It enables you to select any program window and keep it on top, even while using a window beneath it. Then just make a small blank window with any program (I use WordPad), and then you can slide it over any image you find distracting or offensive. Everybody's happy: the opponent can have their avatar, and you don't have to look at it.

Author:	Sur [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
I would really love to see some avatars that disturb you so much that you need to hide them...

Author:	Tami [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
Sur wrote: I would really love to see some avatars that disturb you so much that you need to hide them... Yes, you're quite right in that most avatars should not be disturbing in the least. But then it is entirely up to me what I find upsetting or distracting, even if it does not bother others. Therefore, the most reasonable solution is to make it possible to hide a picture you don't want to see. For example: one player used a close-up photograph of an unwrapped Egyptian mummy. That's right: a corpse's face. There are times when I absolutely do not wish to see such a picture, even if it is of scientific interest, blah blah blah. The KGS adminship obviously approved it; but I don't want it in my field of vision while I'm trying to play a game. Is the option to hide it too much to ask for?

Author:	yoyoma [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
What do you do at a real life tournament if your opponent's t-shirt offends you?

Author:	Tami [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
yoyoma wrote: What do you do at a real life tournament if your opponent's t-shirt offends you? Obviously, I would have no recourse in such a situation, except perhaps to request he/she covers it up. They might not agree. That's what negotiation is for. But online go is not a real-life tournament. I play from home, and if I don't want to let unwanted images in to my private space, then that's up to me, full stop. To be clear, I'm not saying the hide button would hide the avatar from the opponent; only that I should have the option not to have certain images displayed to me locally. If you're going to have free speech, then let's protect the freedom to ignore it too.

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5643	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Dusk Eagle [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
I've seen images that were in some way distracting or somewhat creepy which I would rather not see. For a short time I even ran a bot whose picture was a face of an artificial woman that clearly fell in the Uncanny Valley. Since Kubuntu comes with "Keep window on top" built in, I've used this feature before to cover up parts of the screen (in KGS or on the web) that I couldn't block with other means.

Author:	badukJr [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
And here I thought the KGS avatars were so small that you can't even recognize what they are

Author:	hyperpape [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
I've never seen a t-shirt worth objecting to at a tournament. But a lot of similar events do have a bit of a dress code. If someone showed up with full frontal nudity on their shirt, I suspect the TD would intervene.

Author:	judicata [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
I'm with Tami on this one. I can't recall ever wanting to cover one up, but I can see it happening. Obnoxious and obscene are different things. For example, I would like to cover up every avatar on wbaduk.

Author:	Suji [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
Tami wrote: The avatars feature on KGS is great, but occasionally you might meet someone whose avatar disturbs you or even offends you in some way. For sure it's possible to stick a piece of paper on your monitor or to shift the playing screen to the right, but there are downsides to those methods. I made a request on the SL KGS Wishlist for an option to hide the opponent's avatar. Hopefully WMS will grant this one, but... In the meantime, I have found a reasonably good solution, which you might want to use. Look for the free program called "Window on Top". It enables you to select any program window and keep it on top, even while using a window beneath it. Then just make a small blank window with any program (I use WordPad), and then you can slide it over any image you find distracting or offensive. Everybody's happy: the opponent can have their avatar, and you don't have to look at it. This wouldn't be too hard to implement either, and I think a reasonable request.

Author:	Tami [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
Philip Traum wrote: It is not unreasonable but is it reasonable? Step by slipery step we allow people to avert their eyes from things that are entirely reasonable in our society, until they start creating their own strange worlds inside their heads. Somewere we have to put our feet down and say: If you want to live in our society you well have to accept 'this'. Of course what 'this' is, is always a question of negotiations and compromise, but a KGS avatar? So it is reasonable to force me to see a picture that offends, irritates or distracts me while I am trying to play go? I hope WMS implements a KGS soundtrack featuring fingernails scraping chalkboard that can't be switched off so that you can try it on for size! I am not against people expressing themselves; but I don't think it is fair to force an image into somebody else's space.

Author:	quantumf [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
While I can accept that some avatars may be offensive, the part I find odd, and perhaps its just me, is how you even notice it? When I play a go game, I am utterly immersed in the board and its possibilities. I just simply don't see peripheral stuff. In fact, if my opponents types to me during the game, I usually don't even see that. Similarly, its really pointless for me to play music when a game is on - I just don't notice it.

Author:	amnal [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
Philip Traum wrote: Tami wrote: So it is reasonable to force me to see a picture that offends, irritates or distracts me while I am trying to play go? I hope WMS implements a KGS soundtrack featuring fingernails scraping chalkboard that can't be switched off so that you can try it on for size! I am not against people expressing themselves; but I don't think it is fair to force an image into somebody else's space. Reason always has to be balanced with doubt, but yes, I think it is reasonable in this case. Someday you will meet someone who thinks it obscene for a woman to show her uncovered face in a public space. I want you to remember this argument when that happens. Everyone has to compromise. If you are more sensitive than "normal" people, you will simply have to take the suitable measures yourself, which you also have done. I'm only arguing that it should not be made easy for people to shield themself from the normalizing influence of society. What nonsense. Tami's statement/request is totally reasonable, and has none of the ludicrous implications that you suggest. A woman asked not to show her face in public should not have to 'compromise'. Perhaps you disagree, but I support the standard modern idea that personal freedom extends right up to the point where you start infringing on other peoples freedom. That is, you don't have to like what someone else is doing, but you aren't allowed to make them stop for solely that reason. In contrast, Tami has merely requested a way to make it easier to not have to look at (for instance) corpse faces. There is no question of freedom infringement, the issue one of politeness and comfort only. To slot this into your own analogy, it might seem a reasonable request that museum staff transporting a mummy down the street might cover it first. Being disturbed at the sight doesn't seem to necessitate any particular oversensitivity, to me. Note that I'm not saying KGS (or anyone else) is in any way obliged to listen to the request, only that it's not unreasonable, doesn't hurt anyone, and is not comparable in any worthwhile way to your own example. KGS might be inclined to listen for many reasonable reasons, such as agreeing that some images may be legitimately more disturbing for some than for others, or simply because it's nice to give the users choice. They might also not listen for equally reasonable reasons. Whatever the decision, I hope that it won't involve baseless implications such as the idea that Tami might start creating 'her own strange world' inside her head...

Author:	phrax [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
The nice thing about Tami's request is if it's implemented, people don't need to compromise. People can express themselves through their avatars, and others have the ability to not see that expression. Everyone gets what they want. And it doesn't even have to be offensive. Sometimes "that is annoying" is enough of a reason to block something. I avoid annoying people in RL, it is nice to have the ability to do it on the internet as well. On a tangential note, the AdBlock addon in FireFox can be used to block offensive/annoying avatars in the forums. Just right-click the image, and you can choose that specific image to block.

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Author:	Tami [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
Maybe PhilTraum has misapprehended my suggestion. I am not suggesting people not be allowed to show their avatars, only that one can choose not to have it displayed on one's own machine. KGS may be a public space, but my living room isn't, and I don't particularly want the dead face of some pharoah staring out at me while I am trying to play go. And if I choose to live in my own world in my own home, then so what? I hold down a responsible job and pay my taxes, and I obey the law. My own mind is my own empire, though. If you believe society ought hold sway there too then, well, it smacks of advocating Big Brother. I can go busking for example, but I cannot force people to listen to my music. If my opponent on KGS wanted to hide my avatar at his or her end, then that's their choice, not mine. And to get back on topic: I am a) merely trying to draw attention to a feature request that I reckon many people, though of course not everybody, would appreciate b) let others know how to work around the issue should WMS be too busy, etc., to indulge the request I am not interested in discussing social philosophy. Sorry. Please respect my boundaries, as I respect yours.

Author:	phrax [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
Philip Traum wrote: ...Still, when you are serious about anything some people will tell you that you speak nonsense and are ludicrous. ... So the question is: are you serious, or just speaking nonsense?

Author:	hyperpape [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
Philip Traum wrote: I'm saying reason is a very dangerous thing, and that every action we take or refrain from taking has far reaching implications. Sometimes implications we wouldn't imagine in our worst nightmares....I will not compromise on this. ....but he should understand that whatever decision, action or inaction, it will be burdened with moral guilt. There is no way of escaping it.... I can't tell if you're just playing this up as a sort of joke, but I guess I'd take a deep breath if I were you.

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
An option not to show avatars is as much needed as a full screen board mode - very urgently.

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
Philip Traum wrote: It is not unreasonable but is it reasonable? Step by slipery step we allow people to avert their eyes from things that are entirely reasonable in our society, until they start creating their own strange worlds inside their heads. Somewere we have to put our feet down and say: If you want to live in our society you well have to accept 'this'. Of course what 'this' is, is always a question of negotiations and compromise, but a KGS avatar? Ooh, a slippery slope argument! That works both ways Right now, you only wish to force on Tami what KGS avatar she must watch. But step by slippery step, it'll move towards forcing children to watch hardcore gore and porn.

Author:	hermitek [ Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How to hide opponents' avatars if you want to
HermanHiddema wrote: Philip Traum wrote: It is not unreasonable but is it reasonable? Step by slipery step we allow people to avert their eyes from things that are entirely reasonable in our society, until they start creating their own strange worlds inside their heads. Somewere we have to put our feet down and say: If you want to live in our society you well have to accept 'this'. Of course what 'this' is, is always a question of negotiations and compromise, but a KGS avatar? Ooh, a slippery slope argument! That works both ways Right now, you only wish to force on Tami what KGS avatar she must watch. But step by slippery step, it'll move towards forcing children to watch hardcore gore and porn. KGS already has one censoring step – once you upload you avatar, admins have to confirm that it is suitable for others and doesn't violate KGS TOS. Tami doesn't have to play on KGS, no one is forcing her – you cannot please everyone.