ive gotten tired of bigdoug doing crap like this to me and other users and banning me 48 hours every single week

there was a go related conversation going on and then a couple off topic comments were said so doug decides to throw out the entire convo. i should note that i was not in the convo at all and had not said anything in EGR all day.

then mocks me pretending he was insulted to find another excuse to ban me. the admin email is useless and the admins there are only insulting me so i have to try other places

is it really any question why im trying to get other users to boycott KGS in favor of kaya?

BigDoug is awesome!

you could have just said nothing at all instead of being an ass

Is it just me, or is that statement often a product of the type of behaviour it reprimands? :p

it could be just me but people who try to derail topics are awfully annoying.

Ok, I won't derail the topic. BigDoug is not the problem. Clearly from your first post, you have had encounters with him before. You know how he does his job as a KGS admin. And you nonetheless see fit to provoke him. The thing is, you know what will happen, and you do it nonetheless. Whose fault is that? Seems to me, you don't know when to shut up. Did someone tell you that it's your responsibility to say whatever comes to your mind, particularly when it's derogatory? That's my impression.

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Patience, grasshopper.

please show me where i provoked him

not to mention, you blaming me for how he acts? thats kinda funny

I feel like the meanness of the moderation and the obnoxiousness of people complaining about it are equally annoying. I would like to abolish them both.

There is a big difference between a regular member offending an admin who asked not to be offended and an admin being sarcastic to a member who asked not to be sarcastic with.

Normally when an admin is already annoyed by someone else, it's not wise to continue annoying the admin even if you were not the one warned.

Of course you always have the choice of leaving KGS, playing on other servers, and never coming back if it really annoys you too much.

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A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

I have to defend xDragon a bit, because it looks like BigDoug is annoyed permanently. For a while I had BigDoug in my buddy list with a note "beware, BD is online" as for not to chat in EGR.
On the other hand is kinda impolite to make private chat public and create forum topic with title "can we get rid of the insane admins please?" is just rude.

Reminds me of a joke:

A farmer gets pulled over by a state trooper for speeding, and the trooper starts to lecture the farmer about his speed and, in general, starts to throw his weight around to try to make the farmer uncomfortable.

Finally, the trooper gets around to writing out the ticket, and while he does he keeps swatting at some flies buzzing around his head.

The farmer says, "Having some problems with circle flies there, are ya?"

The trooper stops writing the ticket and says "Well yeah, if that's what they are - I never heard of circle flies."

So the farmer says, "Well, circle flies are common on farms. See, they're called circle flies because they're almost always found circling around the back end of a horse."

The trooper says, "Oh," and goes back to writing the ticket. Then after a minute he stops and says, "Hey, wait a minute, are you trying to call me a horse's ass?"

The farmer says, "Oh no, Officer. I have too much respect for law enforcement and police officers to even think about calling you a horse's ass."

The trooper says, "Well, that's a good thing," and goes back to writing the ticket.

After a long pause, the farmer says, "Hard to fool them flies though."

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Patience, grasshopper.

It is the responsibility of an admin to not get annoyed.

Not literally--everyone gets annoyed sometimes. But the purpose of an admin is to enforce the rules of KGS, not to act on their personal feelings.

But I don't know that this is the best example: that egg timer comment was sarcastic and unproductive. If you can't see why comments like that are going to get bad results, your life will probably be a lot more difficult than it needs to be.

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Occupy Babel!

I think it's hard to tell whose side may be right without knowing the previous record of xDragon, because it looks like he has one. Having a "record of offenses" is usually a bad idea. BigDoug acted too quick on xDragon's second comment, banning him for 24 hours instead of the "4 hour standard" everyone else was getting, and we don't even know if these two were his first 2 phrases in all the kibitz or he had been already warned/being OT a lot. Calling an admin insane is a bad idea (like calling an officer a horse ass, very good daal ,) but I find his way of managing it "you call me insane" -> "I feel hurt" -> "you're banned" childish.

xDragon, the best way to deal with admins is just not talking in the ESR. I learnt my lesson a few years ago when I was threatened by being booted for 48 hours for asking what had happened previously. Yes, seriously. I had not been part of the offending chat and just arrived at the end seeing a lot of people angry and several people banned. I asked what had happened, some admin told me "nothing" and my answer (along the lines of) "I don't think covering up makes it nothing, something happened and I am curious about it" ended in this threat, just for asking and in no offensive way whasoever. At that moment I realised that the EGR is no place for any kind of chat if you really enjoy playing in KGS, just go to a smaller room where you can talk about whatever you want (of course if the room admins allow you).

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Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Well I honestly think you are at fault, but it is also true that BigDoug overreacted a bit.
Then we have the question again: "What happend before?". Maybe you are constanly provoking him? Alone your comment with the egg timer is considered an insult.


This is very rude! If you always talk like that it's no secret why you got banned.
Oren's comment is a bit off-topic but not a direct insult to you, it also can be understood as sarcasm against BigDoug. If it offends you, then ignore him, report him or ask him how he meant it.

Starting a hate thread against a single person is bad, you will not find many that will support you with this.
And a little hint: Your topic title insults more then one admin on KGS, all admins could get offended. Also someone once said: "Who are you to judge a person insane?"

Now I'm not trying to be mean or anything and I can understand why you are mad, but I can't support a "Witch hunt".

Bigdoug has a habit of reacting pretty strongly to things, but you did bait him, so it's hard to feel sympathetic. He's got a job to do, it's not much fun at the best of times, and being confrontational with him isn't going to help. Goading him on the 24 hour thing was just really stupid if you didn't want to get banned.

I just don't understand why the moderating structure of KGS is set up like this at all.

(i) I don't understand why, out of all the very kind, gentle, reasonable folk who inhabit KGS, so many of the people who talk in bold are so psychologically maladjusted. Do you know that guy who is totally cool and admirable, but all of his friends are boorish cretins whom he knew in middle school and whom he never managed to get away from as they all grew up? Sometimes I feel that like that about wms and his admins. I know that's stupid... the cossacks work for the czar, etc. etc.

(ii) I realize that xDragon and most of the other people who get into trouble with the mods regularly are probably nasty pieces of work. But even so, the way the mods react to them is crazy and excessive. And it has a chilling effect on those of us who would like to talk, but are just too smart to risking getting in trouble. If I want to worry about getting punished for talking, I'll go protest extraordinary rendition or something like that. I prefer chatting on a go server to be more relaxing.

To make an analogy, the people who are talking down to xDragon are like those who would say, about a mugging victim, "Well, why was he out alone... in a neighborhood he didn't know... at that hour... and he probably had too much to drink, too..." But people who take that view forget that for every person who actually gets mugged, there are hundreds of us who never get mugged, but who have to spend every night trying to make sure that the place, time, and manner in which we are walking mean we deserve to get attacked.

(iii) I don't understand the policy towards chatting in the English Game Room. That's the room with the highest number of people in it, and with the most general set of motivations for being in it. As a result, that's where people like to talk, and if someone were to talk, that's also where they're likely to get a response. As a result, sometimes there are gasp conversations in the EGR! The official line, as I understand it, is that this conversation nonsense can't be tolerated, because sometimes people might want to ask a Really Important question in the EGR (although how it would ever get answered if there weren't people hanging around frequently checking the chat, I don't know), and besides there are other rooms which people don't actually use where a conversation could hypothetically occur.

(iv) The unpleasant policy towards moderation would be one thing if, as a result, KGS were a beautiful little garden, and every conversation in it a beautiful flower, just waiting to be sniffed. That would surely justify any sort of punishment meted out to the weeds. But it's not, so it isn't. Every day there's some guest or another with a name like "isukdix" spamming a game for twenty minutes before he gets banned, only to be replaced two minutes later by "isukdixx".

I do think KGS would be more transparent if every time you opened it, the following message appeared: "Under no circumstances should you discuss the decisions the admins have made, ask the admins why they made those decisions, or disagree with those decisions. Their decisions are their decisions, and you'll just have to deal. Do otherwise, and you stand a good chance of being banned."

And there probably should be a link to a page that lists what's considered unacceptable. Because I can guarantee you that while everyone gets that extreme insults and profanity are going to be moderated, people are generally quite surprised to find out that (for instance) the avatars that a player uses are considered off-topic.

(In the same fashion, Wikipedia needs to have a single page that's "here's what you think you know about how Wikipedia works that you're wrong about. If you don't know this, you'll get in pointless arguments with people who are familiar with Wikipedia when you find out that your edits aren't welcome").

P.S. Since there's always a personal element to these things, yes I was once banned for politely (imho) suggesting that it didn't make sense to have player pictures and then forbid discussion of them.

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Occupy Babel!

How fortunate you are to be able to have conversations freely, both here and on KGS, with the minor proviso that certain things are likely to annoy a moderator. Then there are those individuals who will skate closer and closer to those subjects with, it seems, the specific intention of earning the brownie points of a ban and who then claim in terms of injured innocence that it wasn't them, it was Johnny down the street who started it. Enjoy your freedoms; I still have a t-shirt that says "Banned from IGS", where I think that they avoid the problem totally by having no chat at all.

Best wishes.

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No aji, keshi, kifu or kikashi has been harmed in the compiling of this post.
http://www.gogod.co.uk

I think that your last sentence answers your first.

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You can always privately ask an admin why things are done in a certain manner. A private question is usually interpreted as a question. A public question is often interpreted as a challenge.

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