Proposal: Whenever a KGS player gains 3 or more ranks during a series of 10 or fewer consecutive games, exclude from tilde calculations all the games in the series that were against higher-ranked players.

Reasoning: Being accurately ranked is important. A player who is seriously underranked (or who is improving at a very fast rate such as 3 stones per 10 games) can’t be blamed for making it their top priority to correct their rank; and KGS shouldn’t hamper or penalize them for that pursuit.

My own situation is that I made the mistake of playing my first ranked game against a 25k robot, thus giving me an initial rank of 23k?. Correcting my rank was a laborious process that involved several games against players more highly ranked than me.


I think a lot of people might respond to this post by saying, “Well, sure that's a drag, but it’s really not that hard to go play some fast 9x9 games with people whose ranks are lower than yours. Just go do that and your problem will be solved.”

Well, part of the problem is that I don’t have anywhere near as much time for Go and KGS as I wish I did. I’m not a regular. If I have to play 5 highly contrived games to get around what is effectively a bug in the system, that’s probably a bigger hurdle and a bigger annoyance for me than it would be for regular KGS users. My current rank is 13k?~, and there seems to be a kind of catch-22 where the weaker players stay away because of the question mark and the stronger players stay away because of the tilde. Patience and perseverance will eventually repel the bug (on a user-by-user basis), but wouldn’t it make more sense to *fix* the bug at a system level?

Let me be clear that I agree with the idea behind the tilde system, and if I ever got a *real* tilde, my response would be, “Whoops, okay, sure I’ll go play some weaker players.” But it’s frustrating and cumbersome to have a tilde as a consequence of having been underranked.

Thanks for your consideration. Constructive criticisms are very welcome though I hope you’ll focus such criticisms on the proposal rather than on me or my approach to {Go, KGS, having fun, other}.

By the way, many thanks to Bill Shubert and everyone else who makes KGS work.

I don't know what rank you should be, but since you chose to play a 25k bot (idiotbot?) for your first game, you should assume the responsibility of starting from there.

My advice would be to create a new account and play your first game against someone your level.
Since nobody plays people with a "?" rank:

-try to get hold of a bot with the same level as you (that can be hard for bots above 10k)
-try the automatch feature
-go to the "ranking room", create a custom game stating your level and that you need a stable rank
-look at the open games list and wait for someone who is ranked "x?", where x is your current level.

It will be faster than going up the ladder step by step.

EDIT:
Looks like you're 15k to 13k (no offense if it's not your real rank), in this case LibertyBot 14k is very often available. For the range 16k to 12k it's an interesting bot to play.

I've never had problems with the tilde, but the question mark is extremely annoying.
If I go on holidays for sometimes, I get one and it becomes extremely hard to find an opponent.

Thanks for your reply. You're right, my ability level corresponds to 13-15k KGS.


It seems kind of harsh to say that if a newbie doesn't have the foresight to play their first game against a carefully-selected opponent, they should be held responsible for the consequences. There are a lot of things new players typically won't know, such as:

• After your first game, you're assigned a tentative rank that is nearly equal to the rank of whoever you played, regardless of how the game went.
• Finding an opponent may be difficult under certain circumstances, e.g. if your rank is 23k?.
• 25k KGS is several ranks lower than 25k AGA. http://senseis.xmp.net/?RankWorldwideComparison.
• Handicaps are capped at 6 stones for ranked games.
• Tildes exist.

Other comments on my proposal?

You can play strongers players with less handicap or weaker players giving more handicap. I don't see why rapid rank increase should really matter.

I just say ignore the tilde. Eventually you'll find your spot and the tilde disappears. If you have trouble finding games, automatch.

I agree with Oren. Once you get wins and losses with those close to you in rank, with "proper" handicap that reflects your ability, and not necessarily your KGS, rank, your KGS rank should quickly be corrected. You can partially explain your situation using the offer note line when you create a game offer. In addition, you can build some credibility with a few free games. You should find users will be more willing to play a free game since there is less at stake, and either player may leave, preferably with an apology, if there is a large mismatch.

Personally I think it should be taken out.

Yeah tildes are terrible. I mean, who cares with what kind of players you play? It's all about the rank...

_________________
Stefany, web programmer

Two additional options you may consider:

1: Play even rated opponents at handicap. Games against even rated opponents are not used in tilde calculations, and this effect would be identical to playing a stronger player even.

2: Help ? players get a rating. Games against ? players are counted just like games against lower rated players as far as tilde is concerned.

The tilde formula checks this:

2*(L+U) + 5 < H

L = Games against lower ranked players
U = Games against players trying to establish a rank (? players)
H = Games against higher ranked players

So if it takes you 15 games against stronger players to get to your proper rank, playing 2 lower rated players at handicap, and helping 3 people get a rank will be enough to avoid a tilde. If you play 5 of those 15 games against a player of even rating at a handicap (instead of a higher ranked player), then you could do it by playing 1 handicap game against a weaker player and helping 2 people get a rank.




While I agree with this sentiment, the whole reason the tilde was added was due to popular demand from the community...funny how that works out...

At the end of the day, they aren't terribly hard to get rid of, and honestly, if you don't really care about it generally others won't either.

No...

I understand the Irony, but I was not one of the people that asked for it, and I still think it is a bad idea.

If you are 10k wishing to raise your rank, the server will not differentiate between when you play an 8k even, or if you play a 10K giving 2H and komi.

The former will be included in tilde calculations, the latter will be excluded.

Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying, technically you are correct, however people are much less likely to be willing to do this.
Edit: It also doesn't work if you don't like handicap games.