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Offline EdLee
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Post #21 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:01 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm12
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm13
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Beginners:
All basic josekis so far. :)
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #22 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:35 pm 
Gosei
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I need to think for a while before picking my next move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Lots of good options. Three. Three good options. I mostly know b and c with O4 at O3, so my inclination is to play 'a', but I might take this opportunity to look into some joseki.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #23 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:55 pm 
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Maybe Loons is debating between (a) and (b): :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #24 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:47 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

R8 exchanges my corner for good thickness in gote.

This exchange lends itself to an illustration of the proverb "Do not invite your opponent to make thickness in the opening".
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12 followed by a b - White playing this now would be disastrous for him.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X b X 2 3 . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . 0 9 a 1 5 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12 Black pays for his thickness.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

I chose to play this second diagram because (1) I want to gain some experience with it and (2) it has a clear relationship with Q16, compared to :b13: ...R3.

PS: I checked my rather meager database, and pros have played :b13: albeit not with great success.

Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm12
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

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Last edited by Loons on Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #25 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:42 pm 
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@ Loons: Is there a typo? Your numbers are confusing me. I don't see a :b1:

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #26 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:53 pm 
Gosei
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Oops, yeah, I can see how that could be unclear.
I mean this :b1: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

And by :b13: I of course meant :b2: , I'll patch it up with an edit presently.

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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #27 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:21 am 
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@obs

So far really normal opening. The lower right should proceed with the joseki that Loons chose. White might immediately play a ladder breaker or approach the upper right stone. I can't wait to see who has what style.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #28 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am 
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My first feeling is the simple jump :w1:. Will think about it. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #29 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:44 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm12
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #30 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:37 pm 
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Obs:
A few pro games had similar or identical boards up to :b13: (some with even the same move order as ours),
and some (but not all) had :w14: at 3-3 (a). The variations included, for example,
not having the :wc: :bc: exchange, or not having the :bt: :wc: exchange.
Given the local lower right corner shape, there were games where W played (a)
whether the upper right 4-4 ( :bs:), or corner presence, was :black: or :white:.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm13
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . # . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . W . . X . . B . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Obviously I don't know what the pros were thinking, so my guess is that after :w1: :b2:,
since W cannot live locally, W will have a running group; and 3-3 (a) is big cash by itself:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Var. 1
$$, . . . . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$, . . . X . X . O . |
$$. . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$--------------------[/go]
There are trade-offs between vars. 2 and 3, but they seem perfectly playable for both B and W,
so, time to do more thinking:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Var. 2
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . 3 2 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Var. 3
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline cdybeijing
 Post subject: Re:
Post #31 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:38 pm 
Lives in gote
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EdLee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm12
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


After accepting the trigger, I think it's still your move Ed!
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Offline EdLee
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Post #32 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:42 pm 
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cdybeijing, thanks; yes, I know. I'm thinking. :study: :mrgreen:
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Offline EdLee
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Post #33 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:11 am 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm18
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Obs:
To double-hane or not to double-hane, that was the question.
We're still on book, so to speak: both :w18: keima and :w1: double-hane are pro variations.
I decided against :w1: double-hane because even though W has a ladder break in the (a) direction,
the :black: (b) ponnuki (or something similar) is a bit annoying, and :black: (c) is sente.
Plus, :w18: seems to be the road less traveled by. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . a , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
(p)
W should've double haned instead of the keima :w18::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #34 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:36 am 
Gosei
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Well, Ed is nicely underlining that O4 is high. My instinct is to capture R6 at S6, which Kogo's agrees is joseki. White here could have played Q7 instead, giving white a ladder breaker big point and leaving P2ish as another big point. I think I am content about the played exchange for the right, but am going to put off making the move until tomorrow.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Reference.
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Edit: NB black can still play the sealing in move at O2 later, like in the 3-3 invasion joseki I mentioned before (though it isn't sente against white's life).

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #35 Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:15 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

If Ed gets to play N3, I will push it into J3. Later I hope to aim at C8, but lets see what happen on top first.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Reference.
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

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Last edited by Loons on Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #36 Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:15 am 
Honinbo
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Pondering the obvious (a) or tenuki (say, (b)):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm18
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . a . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #37 Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:55 am 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
IMO, 'b' is more important than 'a' right now. If white doesn't play 'a', what's black going to do in that area? Get like 10 points or something?

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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #38 Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:40 am 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm20
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . 1 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Obs:
Instead of the 1-space jump :b11: in the game, if B had played the 1-space low pincer :b1:,
I would've been OK with the following result. So :w20: seems quite natural.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 Reference variation
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 5 X 3 6 . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . 0 . 4 2 8 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Compare if W tenuki (say, :w1:):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Var 1.
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . 4 3 . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Var. 2
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . 2 O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
(p)
Slow. Kirby was right; tenuki was bigger than :w20:.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #39 Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:54 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

I want to play on top, but I'm not happy leaving the right crazy open (seven spaces). So I played this enclosure . My move is fourth line, as I want to develop the right. I guess Ed plays on the top. After seeing his move I'll decide between also extending on top, splitting the left and pushing at N4.

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Last edited by Loons on Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #40 Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:44 am 
Honinbo
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First feeling is something like :w1:; :study:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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