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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #21 Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:59 pm 
Dies with sente

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Phelan, let's proceed with this game until you are clearly winning. It's good you are stronger than you thought you were, it makes the game more interesting and more challenging for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . W . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I was afraid Black would launch a strong splitting attack here, but he decided to go for territory in the corner. His move is helping me get stronger and move towards my other stone. Meanwhile, his stone on the lower side is getting weaker. So I am happy to extend here, no matter what happens next.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #22 Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:06 am 
Gosei
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Sure. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a b . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There's a cut at a and/or b, but I'm not worrying about it for now if I can keep white cut as well, and live in the corner besides that. I don't think white will cut immediately, probably play elsewhere first.

Ah, there's also c, the invasion. I can't read it that clearly now, but I'd be willing to trade the corner for a wall facing up the right side.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #23 Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:39 pm 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Things are heating up. I obviously need to save my stone there and the move I played was actually the first thing that came to mind. It is kinda obvious. I am running out and at the same time separating black stones at Q10 and P6. My two stones below are a bit stronger, so I think I can deal with them later (forcing moves against the corner might help). Also Black's knight move can potentially be cut off from the corner.
I'm not reading much at this point. The only thing I read was that if Black cuts at Q7, I capture it in a ladder or connect to my two stone group and shut off the corner. If Black hanes from the top, then he will be pushing me towards his side stone, so I won't be unhappy. My only worry at this point is my two stones on the lower side.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #24 Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:50 pm 
Honinbo

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Phelan wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm tempted to start fighting by attaching
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But walleye would probably approach from the other corner at :w5:, or tenuki.

My move above seems to both claim part of the corner, and support the side hoshi stone.


For later:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 1 2 . . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b1: is a good attachment, particularly in an 8 stone game. The marked Black stone prevents a good extension for White. Notice that White has two cutting points and can only protect one of them. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #25 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:36 pm 
Gosei
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Sorry. :-?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wasn't expecting his move, but the cut doesn't seem bad for me, since if he cuts back, I have two good ladders from which I can pick

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #26 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:24 pm 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X W O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess Black decided to make some sort of position in the center. This is not bad, but the corner is isolated and I have a couple of forcing moves in the center. I don's see how to kill the corner now but it does look a bit thin. If Black protects the corner with :b5:, he leaves a big weakness in the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is a strong way to play for Black. I can connect in the same way as above but it gets a bit unpleasant when Black plays :b5:. I just hope Black does not play this :b1:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X O O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course, Black can also play some sort of atari first. I haven't really looked into that, I don't think it would change anything much.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #27 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:27 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmm, I said two ladders, but I only have this one. The other one would be just a threat, and would allow him to capture a stone while I get outside influence... The tradeoff isn't good enough.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Outside influence
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 2 . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something like this.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #28 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:31 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't say I like this but there is no choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #29 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:49 pm 
Gosei
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I like this for white, though I reserve the right to change my opinion depending on the final result :razz: .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . b O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White can aim both for the moves at 'a' and 'b'. Sure, his own group looks rather weak, but walleye is eight stones stronger than Phelan so he should be ok. Messy fights favor the stronger player.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #36 - walleye vs Phelan (8 stones)
Post #30 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:44 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The usual way do do triggers(conditional moves) is to put a
"Trigger:
A move for you to read after you reply to mine. My next move.
"
after your move. This case was pretty obvious, but in others I might not follow the sequence you propose.

I might have made a mistake before. :-? I think I can still live in the corner, but I'm no longer sure. Sacrificing it isn't an option, unless I can get much more outside thickness.
Now he'll get the cut and attack me, I expect:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cut.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or another cut like this. Sliding under the right side is also an option, but it doesn't seem as severe as this.

I'll probably just save the O6 stones and just use the other one for aji, but it depends on the kind of cut he makes.

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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #31 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:22 pm 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . W . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The focus now is on the lower side. I cannot let black connect K4 to his group on the right side. I want to play between these two groups but it's not easy to find the right point.

This is the standard way to attack but it looks too risky in this case.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In addition, P4 doesn't look like sente. The corner will live as far as I can see. Here's one possible sequence.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 5 . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Since Black is playing well I decided to do something sensible, like making shape. I think I can still break through since Black's two stones at O6 are not so strong. This is terribly slow but my fast moves haven't worked out very well. Perhaps this way of playing will turn out to be better against Phelan.

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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #32 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:27 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


walleye's move might not look like a cut, but it's even better (to my eyes) than what I had posted before. It gets eyespace for the white group, and leaves no possible counter cut behind. It's thick.
It also threatens to attack either the two black stones above, or the lower middle stone, as the other cut did. It shifts the balance of power in this zone towards white.

I'm taking some influence. It's still shaky because of the cutting stone and the one point jumps, so it doesn't make a moyo yet, but it threatens to make one. I'll probably have a hard fight in the center, but I prefer my move to something that might secure the cutting stone, and leave access to the center, such as a, b or c.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . a c b O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #33 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:53 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So Black took advantage of my risky play earlier and he is now in control of the game. Let's see how far he can take it.

Not much reading here. Naturally I need to move out.

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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #34 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:28 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
walleye:
I never know how to respond to this sort of separation. If you were black, how would you respond to this position?

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Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #35 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:19 pm 
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Chew Terr:

Marked stone is behind my sector line, between L5 and F3. Black just needs to move out at a or b. No need to do anything crazy since Black is leading by a lot. Of course, it is possible to play more aggressively, perhaps a knight move at K7 or something like that, but there is no need to.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . b . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . a . Y . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #36 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:38 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . B . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This was the move that I wanted to do yesterday, but decided to sleep on. Still looks the best. I'm trading the bottom for a good center. Also, the bottom still has aji I can use to reduce/live there later, unless he spends moves neutralizing it.

I was afraid of the cut, but there's no problem:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Cut isn't problematic
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . B 2 3 5 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #37 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:06 am 
Gosei
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Chew Terr:
Phelan's move is the normal shape for responding to this separation (or the other, symmetrical point. However, circumstances may call for something else, so don't necessarily play it automatically. This is no comment on how good or bad Phelan's move is in this circumstance; it's just a general statement.

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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #38 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:49 am 
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It would really help Phelan if he did not only read out the hardest resistance but also the best resistance to his move. His move is OK, I think, but if read just two moves further, he would realize that his claim that he were sacrificing the bottom is premature.

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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #39 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:30 am 
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Walleye: Thanks! When someone starts to explain something and says the phrase
sector lines
, suddenly I understand what they're going to say and it all seems intuitive. Clearly, I should be thinking in those terms myself, and not just when things are explained to me.

Dusk Eagle: Thanks, I'll try to remember to consider that move in response to this shape.

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 Post subject: Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)
Post #40 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
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I have to continue here. Letting Black play on this point would be intolerable.

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