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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #241 Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:02 pm 
Honinbo

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Hard to see a way for white to win. I was hoping to see some magic, but is it still possible?

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #242 Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:02 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . 1 X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #243 Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:28 pm 
Judan
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Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . 4 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . 1 X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Grab some popcorn. The show is starting.
I do hope that I have read this correctly.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #244 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:49 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . 4 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . 1 X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O 5 . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I didnt read too much into this...but white shape has toomuch flexablity.

trigger
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . 4 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . 9 O X . 1 X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O 7 O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O 5 6 X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #245 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:09 am 
Judan
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Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Trigger accepted.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . 4 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . 9 O X . 1 X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O 7 O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O 5 6 X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He found the only line that saves him from outright death. It gets H5 in sente, making room for an eye at H6.

But note that he stopped at 49. He is probably hoping that I play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X 2 . 1 X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

K7 looks like the vital point, but if I play it, he lives with 2 at H7. He gets one eye at H6, and one by killing my two stones.

But we are not going to play that line. I'm going for this line in which his life hangs on a ko:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X 3 4 . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X 2 1 5 X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unfortunately, there is still one gap in the surrounding besiegers. He can play M11 as an internal ko threat:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X 8 . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X 3 4 . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X C 1 5 X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O 7 O 6 O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hmmm...it sure would be nice if there were a black stone at M11 so that white couldn't do that.

So that is the status of the harassment of his group in the center. Let's change perspectives for a moment and look at harassing his group in the upper right.

I'd like to play 'a' or 'b' below, but I have a weakness at 'c'. So trying to cut him up results in a messy fight that I think allows him to escape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . a O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . c X b O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Again, it sure would be nice if black had stone at M11 or N11 to make the cut work.

I'm going to play a dual purpose move. It renews the threat to cut on the right, and it seals white in the center, making the potential ko that much more costly for him.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm141 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X 0 . 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . 4 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . 9 O X . 1 X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O 7 O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O 5 6 X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #246 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:24 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
wrong time for me to probe but i assume he will answer.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #247 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:50 pm 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1456
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He can scoop out the corner if he wants, I'll settle for about the same number of points when capturing his four stones. It is a wash on points and I will have much greater influence affecting the upper left side. That is a net profit for me.

If he does defend his four stones, then I can come back and play the conventional yose moves and it is much easier to kill his right side group because my cutting stone is stronger.

He may manage an eye on the far right side during the yose play there. So playing 1 to kill the other eye may be needed to kill. Having M15 makes this easy.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O X . . X |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . O O |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . 2 1 . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O X X O O |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #248 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:57 pm 
Gosei

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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
He can steal the corner if he wants, I'll settle for about the same number of point when capturing his four stones. It is a wash on points and I will have much greater influence affecting the upper left side.

I thought the idea was to cut at P12 and then kill Q15-group. Surely if W takes the corner and thus saves his Q15-group it's not a wash on points compared to that scenario?

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #249 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:06 am 
Tengen
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Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
very strange move by my opponent.... i might have chance to kill his group on right...

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Offline Schachus
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #250 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:52 am 
Lives with ko

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KGS: Schachus12
Schachus wrote:
tj86430 wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
He can steal the corner if he wants, I'll settle for about the same number of point when capturing his four stones. It is a wash on points and I will have much greater influence affecting the upper left side.

I thought the idea was to cut at P12 and then kill Q15-group. Surely if W takes the corner and thus saves his Q15-group it's not a wash on points compared to that scenario?

Seems more than good enough to win this game, as long as R14 doesnt die(mw hinted he plans to kill it?!). Also it is not clear to me yet, how many eyes "taking the corner" is going to make. Killing Q15 seems unrealistic right now, but w might still have to have an eye on the cut.


Last edited by Schachus on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Schachus
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #251 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:55 am 
Lives with ko

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KGS: Schachus12
Sorry for double post, I meant to edit the previos one. How to delete this?


Last edited by Schachus on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #252 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:01 am 
Judan
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Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
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Rank: 1D AGA
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O O O X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

@observers:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
...He can scoop out the corner if he wants, I'll settle for about the same number of points when capturing his four stones. It is a wash on points and I will have much greater influence affecting the upper left side. That is a net profit for me....

Trade happily accepted.


@Beginners:
See the 'belly' tesuji on sensei's library.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #253 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:09 am 
Judan
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There were some treacherous variations in the corner if I had decided to fight.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 4 3 . 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . 2 |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 4 3 7 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . 6 2 |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I never was sure that I had read them all, so that was one more reason that I decided to go with something simple.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #254 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:30 am 
Judan
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@Observers:
I have 50 indisputable points now. Even a generous counting of his yields at most 25 points. The only place to get points now is the upper left, and I doubt that he can net a 25 point difference there.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should even bother with the ko in the middle.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #255 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:12 am 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
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DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
O12

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #256 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:06 am 
Judan
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Magicwand wrote:
O12

Move 155 at O12.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O O O X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . 5 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . 6 . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O O O X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . 5 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X 8 9 . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X 7 6 0 X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As noted earlier, this is probably unnecessary, but I have been looking forward to doing it for weeks.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #257 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:05 am 
Tengen
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My 57 will be at H8

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #258 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:37 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Magicwand wrote:
My 57 will be at H8

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Prisoners: :black: :black: :white: :white:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O O O X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O O . O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . 5 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X X . X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X 7 . . O O X . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . 6 . X O X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O O O O X X . X X O . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O . X O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #259 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:03 pm 
Honinbo

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MW hinted at killing black on the right. I can't quite see a way to kill, myself - black seems to have space.

But if white did kill, it would put him back in the game (though, black would still seem to have good chance, too), so it'd be nice too see something like that happen.

Alas, seems difficult, though. At least this ko potential in the center is interesting.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #260 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:52 pm 
Judan
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Magicwand wrote:
My 57 will be at H8


*Scrrrreeeeeech* Hold on here. That's the wrong ko!
MY group could be at risk.

I must start thinking again.

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