Chew vs Mezzanyne: Opening Practice

Chew Terr · **#41**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Like I said, this corner area and the left side are both large, and I picked this one.

Mezzanyne · **#42**

Ahhhh that stings...just heading out for a quick errand, then I'll respond. My first instinct is f16...or e15? But then again I don't know how that works out, I'll read it out then

Redundant · **#43**

Solomon · **#44**

Mezzanyne · **#45**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Right...don't make territory with thickness...

I don't like the two space high here since there are apparently a lot of ladder variations (that I lose,) and the one space low means he could settle himself comfortably. The two space low, though...might work.

Chew Terr · **#46**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . . 9 O . . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The pincer is an imposing move, and after I played my approach, I second-guessed it because of this pincer in specific. Red, you recommend a wide approach? I was a bit concerned that he would get to easily seal the corner and I would be stuck without a lot. Was I wanting too much, do you think? Araban, would you have recommended a far low approach, or is there a different one you'd prefer?

At the moment, since I'm clearly in my opponent's turf, I'm playing attachments to strengthen my stones and nab a little stability if I can.

Mezzanyne · **#47**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . 0 , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Chew Terr · **#48**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O 1 . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Personally, I would have chosen something like this. It keeps me out of the top and still keeps me just weak enough that if I stop to live, you get to extend from your pincering stone, buying yourself stability and another framework.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . 6 X O 3 . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O 1 . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 5 X . 7 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I prefer the first diagram to the game for you, because the resulting fight is likely to either give me life by killing your stone or worse, let me lock you into the corner while I build a stable group to negate your thickness to the right.

Mezzanyne · **#49**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . 2 X O . . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Might as well give myself some fighting presence.

Solomon · **#50**

Chew Terr wrote:

Araban, would you have recommended a far low approach, or is there a different one you'd prefer?

Sure, a two-space low approach would have been better me thinks.

Aphelion · **#51**

What about 2 space high? I kind of like the look of it because depending on how Black responds, White may tenuki to approach the lower left.

Mezzanyne · **#52**

I never really understood why the two space approach is considered pincer-proof. Isn't there still a valid one space low pincer response? (To both high and low approaches)

Loons · **#53**

I think comparing these gives a reasonable abstraction;
(hidden for space)

Black has more space inside the pincer == better.

What joseki are you picturing after 2 space high approach, Aph?

Aphelion · **#54**

Nothing complicated:

I didn't consider a pincer that much, I imagine the stone will be easy to treat light.

Redundant · **#55**

Mezzanyne wrote:

I never really understood why the two space approach is considered pincer-proof. Isn't there still a valid one space low pincer response? (To both high and low approaches)

You can pincer the two space approaches, but the attack isn't as severe. There's simply more space between the approach stone and the two in the pincer.

Kirby · **#56**

Mezzanyne wrote:

I never really understood why the two space approach is considered pincer-proof. Isn't there still a valid one space low pincer response? (To both high and low approaches)

I think that a two space approach is not "pincer-proof", but if your opponent DOES end up pincering a two-space approach, he/she doesn't get as much benefit from the pincer as he/she would have if the approach were a one-space approach.

This is probably more true when the pincer acts as, not only a pincer, but also an extension. When it's an extension, a one-space pincer of a two-space approach will not be as far as a one-space pincer of a one-space approach.

In addition to that, when you do a two-space approach, a pincer is less severe, probably, because you have more space to react with a two-space approach than with a one-space approach.

Chew Terr · **#57**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Like I said, I'd be willing to give up a decent chunk of territory in exchange for a stable group facing outwards here. White has a lot of strength around, and if I'm stable, that's mostly negated. I was originally going to just atari at E17, but then I couldn't resist the ideas I was reading below:

Mezzanyne · **#58**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O 4 . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What to say....it's the right move?

Chew Terr · **#59**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | . 5 O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I stand by my reading. After this fight, we may want to call the opening more or less done, and go over things a bit. I've tried to comment fully, so I may not have a ton to add, but I'll look back afterwards and see if hindsight helps.

Mezzanyne · **#60**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O 4 . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | 0 5 O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 8 6 X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 9 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If that's your plan, I'd be fine with just doing this sequence ^^

Chew vs Mezzanyne: Opening Practice

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