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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #41 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:33 pm 
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O12 IS MY ANSWER
Wthat my opponent played is correct because it is looking to cut my weakness
If J16 then i dont have any weakness

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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #42 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:34 pm 
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prokofiev wrote:
@ Araban (or anyone else, including Magicwand)

My instinct was one space further, at J16. Is there a specific refutation to that, or would it just be a liability in an upcoming fight in this area? What specific weaknesses does J16 leave?


There are some natural weaknesses to the 2 space jump. The one most relevant here is probably L16.

As Araban posted, he's aiming at O15/N14 connections and having a solid shape makes that approach much more severe. Basically, he's playing honte in preparation to attack.

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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #43 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:27 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

@ prokofiev: Hopefully MW and emerus answered your question; my short answer is that it's a little thin for its purpose if you compare it to the move I played.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words; since I have a hard time trying to explain my move in a succinct and direct way, let me just post this diagram:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
It's not quite the same idea, but kind-of sort-of the same jist; except my corner has more aji so it's even more urgent.

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #44 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:35 pm 
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My first thought is to play F16, but perhaps D10 now is calmer? Looking forward a lot to the next move.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #45 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:39 pm 
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D13? Might be MW's style.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #46 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:24 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . 4 . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i might be wrong...but his move can not be correct...
because it is too~~~ slow.
it is my chance to go ahead.

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #47 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:05 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . f . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . e d . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . c b a O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The objective is clear, to move out. Execution isn't so clear cut though. I basically narrowed it to these 5 choices. Each have their pros and cons. Something like this:

A
Pro: Easier to settle and move out; strengthen by attaching.
Con: It strengthens his group on the right, which, while not weak, does have some aji.

B
Pro: Simple and clear, doesn't touch his group on the right.
Con: The peep is a pain in the ass.

C
Pro: Moves out while putting some pressure on H16.
Con: The peep is still a pain in the ass; cuttable.

D
Pro: Safer than the jump or the keima.
Con: Slower.

E
Pro: Offers a little more flexibility than D in how I can move out.
Con: Helps H16 more; leaves more weakness than D.

F
Pro: Makes a shimari, threatens H17.
Con: J15 shuts me in (not seal-tight though).

That's just the jist of it. So in the end, I decided to pick D.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #48 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:44 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , 6 . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this might be the first instinct of many sdks but...
this will only distroy your influence so it is nogo.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #49 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:51 am 
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I'd feel uncomfortable as black right now.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #50 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:59 am 
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In my opinion, the most helpful and easiest comment you can make, even if you say nothing else, is to say the point you expect your opponent to play, or whether you can't say where you expect him to play. It would take less than a minute to write that for any given move.

So far this game is really interesting.

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Offline Tooveli
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #51 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:26 am 
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I'd feel uncomfortable as WHITE right now.
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #52 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:12 am 
Gosei
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There's no law saying that at least one of the players must be comfortable. :)

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #53 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:54 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
In my opinion, the most helpful and easiest comment you can make, even if you say nothing else, is to say the point you expect your opponent to play, or whether you can't say where you expect him to play. It would take less than a minute to write that for any given move.

So far this game is really interesting.


it sounds easy but actually it is not.
many times i have no idea what my opponent will play
and i have no idea what i will play if i am in that position.
basically i start thinking after my opponent's move.
often it is not what i expected..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 one option i may expect
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 8 0 . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , 6 . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 first instinct but probably wrong
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , 6 . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 intresting thought
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , 6 . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 possible..
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 7 8 . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , 6 0 . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


many variation i drew above is my brainstroming.
it might not make sense because i really didnt think about each move..

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #54 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:48 am 
Tengen

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Hey, it's still easy, because you just say "I can't decide where he'll play" or even "I haven't thought about where he'll play." I just want that little bit of information.

It would only be hard if you can't decide whether you can decide where he'll play. And that shouldn't come up too much. :)

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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #55 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:57 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . a . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As both of his stones are high, if I can gain more control of the outside than he does, he will find myself in a bit of a pickle. I expect him to move out with 'a' next. 'b' also looks possible, to try and settle.

I should also note that the overall grand scheme for White seems to be center control and influence. All of his stones are outside and he really has 0 territory. So my grand scheme will be to try and either steal that from him (steal the crop), or make it not so worthwhile for him to try and cultivate anything in the center (ruin the crop).
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #56 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:44 am 
Oza
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Quote:
if I can gain more control of the outside than he does, he will find myself in a bit of a pickle.
Attachment:
thinking.gif
thinking.gif [ 20.77 KiB | Viewed 7669 times ]

This post by jts was liked by: Jedo
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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #57 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:41 am 
Gosei
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I've managed to find my 21st Century Dictionary of Basic Joseki, and I can verify that the move I played is in there. MW's hanging move isn't in there, but here is what the book has to say regarding the next closest move, a hanging move in a different direction:

White can make the diagonal connection of :w1: . He expects :b2: and plans to hane at :w3: . The result is one of profit for Black and outside influence for White.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Equal.
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 8 X . . . . |
$$ . . 9 O X . a . . |
$$ . . . . O 2 X . . |
$$ . . . 1 . 3 4 . . |
$$ . . . . . 5 6 . . |
$$ . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Black can also foil White's plan by playing :b2: at :w5: , followed by White 2 - Black 'a'. White will switch elsewhere and aim at the hane out at 4.

I think, when you compare MW's hanging move to what's in the move, the result is better for B (especially if he gets 'a'):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . 1 . O 2 X . . |
$$ . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . a . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


The same line of logic from the tidbit on Black foiling White's plan could be applied here as well I think:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . . . |
$$ . . . O X . . . . |
$$ . . 1 . O . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Regarding other possible moves MW could have played, 'a', 'b', and interestingly 'c' are possible:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ . . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ . . . a O . X . . |
$$ . . . . b . c . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Finally, regarding the original descend of :b3: :
In the old days, this was played occasionally, but there are few examples from games. In modern times, it has hardly ever been played. :b3: is territorial, but it's low. Also, to some degree it feels submissive.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #58 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:20 am 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i know that i said that move is sdkish...
initally i was going to play knight move instead...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . 8 . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but after few minutes of thinking it look better to play as i did.

below is one possible variation...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcmd9 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . 7 . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 1 . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . 3 . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #59 Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:34 am 
Gosei
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Liked others: 90
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Rank: AGA 5d
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 9 . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . a . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I found it tempting to try and play moves like 'a' or 'b', but both of these moves can also be cut off and cause problems for me due to the weakness at the peep. I also feel the move I played has the benefit of being the simplest.

For me to surround MW's group would be too painful, so it's obvious that W will need to move out next. Probably G13.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #60 Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:28 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

hum....wonder what my opponent is thinking...

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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