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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #41 Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:49 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 4 . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 2 X 1 . . , . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O 3 X . O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have no threats for this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X 1 . . , . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #42 Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:34 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X . O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

below was my initial move... after some thought i changed my mind.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 5 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X . O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #43 Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:22 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . 6 . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X . O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And finally, we are back to the move I wanted to play all along.

Retrospective Analysis
I was afraid to play this move earlier because my two bottom left corner stones seemed likely to get attacked. As such, I wanted to settle those first.

I think I have done that somewhat successfully, with the regret that white has outside influence - more than I would like.

Because of that influence, the top left black stones are weaker. I'd like to deal with those, but first I want to stir up some action on the bottom.

The risk here is that, due to white's extra influence, I must be wary of the balance of power - I do not want to get attacked on the bottom. Yet, I play here anyway for a single reason: His bottom right stones are weak, too!

My goal is to pressure his stones here on the bottom right such that these stones I am moving get safe in the process. After that, if I get the chance, it'd be nice to play on the left first. But we'll see if I can manage sente to do that.

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Offline Shaddy
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #44 Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:34 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 1206
Liked others: 51
Was liked: 192
Rank: KGS 5d
KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
Kirby:

How much have you planned this move out? What kind of resistance have you considered from Magicwand? What (in more concrete terms than you have given already) do you expect to get out of this?
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #45 Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:02 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X 7 O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

not what i expected..therefore probably not correct.
my guess of near future is that he will be attacked either die or live in gote. either way i win.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #46 Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:03 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
After :w33::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm31
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 2 X 1 . . , . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O 3 X . O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Broken shape for B, and :b18: ( :bt:) seems to have lost (most of?) its meaning (which was what? )
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X B B @ . . , . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . B @ @ Y . O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #47 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:59 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Kirby: incase you missed post..it is your turn
this game is easier than others i played against kirby.

when you get sealed in as kirby did..dont expect yourself to win.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #48 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:49 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Shaddy:

I guess I should be ashamed. Though saying it doesn't fix anything. Only the result matters.

I spoke earlier of making sure to read well as go is a thinking game. Well, maybe I was too lazy here. I assumed it would be good to move the bottom stones and attack white, but I did not think of many variations.

Maybe I just talked about reading earlier to sound cool - to try to show that I've improved my thinking about go.

Maybe I'm doing the same thing now. Like I said, only the result matters - not if I convince others that my attitude about go is strong. It's not, as I can see here... But have I really convinced myself?

I really don't know.

To get to your question, here was my original plan:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . 4 . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . 1 X 2 . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X 3 O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then I didn't read further than that. Crappy, huh? The sequence is only 4 moves long, and I didn't even consider an alternative to :w1:.

Furthermore, upon further looking ahead, I don't even think the picture above is good for black. Even this seems like white wins:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . 5 2 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . 8 X 1 4 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 0 9 7 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . O X X . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . 2 O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . 1 X X O X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 3 X O O O 5 7 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . O X X . 4 6 9 O . X . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And Magicwand played an even better response for the first move. It's better because I can no longer move back my stone in sente.

So, yeah... I was just talk, I think. It seems to be a pattern in my malkovich games. It's even a pattern in my other games because I talk the same crap, but just try to convince myself instead of observers here.

I'd like to say I've gotten over it and have learned - that might be typical of me. But I will try not to fool anyone. Only the result matters. I will not promise anything prior to that. At least I'll try not to... Maybe.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #49 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:16 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . 9 . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



probe

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #50 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:32 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . 0 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I do not see white's objective. This makes his approach on the first line gote.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #51 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:17 pm 
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R11
yes i lost some points from that exchange

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #52 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Still thinking...

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Offline lightvector
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #53 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:00 pm 
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With the move in the game, white gave up a few possibilities. For example, the clamp aji is interesting if black loses enough liberties around.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Clamp
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X .
$$ | . . . . X O O X O O .
$$ | . . 1 X O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


It's not instantly clear to me whether black can resist it even as it is now.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Interesting possibilities
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . .
$$ | . 5 . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X .
$$ | . . 3 4 X O O X O O .
$$ | . . W X O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Even if the clamp doesn't work, white at least has this respectably large sente in the endgame.
(Actually, black's move 6 seems to turn 'a' into gote, so it's not obvious if this is the best for white, and white doesn't gain quite as much. I think black has a similar trick if white tries 'a' first.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Endgame
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . .
$$ | a X X . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X .
$$ | . 6 . . X O O X O O .
$$ | . . 2 X O O . . . . .
$$ | . 4 3 1 5 . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


But a useful thing to note here is that in this shape Black has to back down with :b2: and let white crawl one space further in. If he instead resists, :w3: is tesuji.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Tesuji
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X .
$$ | . . . . X O O X O O .
$$ | . . 3 X O O . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


White lives or gets a massive flower-viewing ko. The marked black stone is slightly too far to permit black to poke out white's second eye.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White life or ko.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . B X . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X .
$$ | . . 2 3 X O O X O O .
$$ | 6 . O X O O . . . . .
$$ | . 4 X 5 1 . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


In general in this shape, where the peep at 3-3 is available, the corner can be much smaller than it looks due to all these possibilities. Many of these possibilities involve white not peeping at 3-3 right away, instead exploiting the weakness more indirectly.

This post by lightvector was liked by: tj86430
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #54 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:31 am 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
to read what kirby is thinking...
"since white tenukied i should make him pay for it."
first instinct is as below..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . 1 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


since above doesnt work..kirby might try something like below.
hum...it might work..but black's surrounding has weakness so i think it is not bad as it appears to be.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . 3 O 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . 1 . . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #55 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:44 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . 2 . . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think he will be able to live, but my goal is to enclose him first, then approach the right white stone from top. He'll probably then do a two-space extension, which I can attack.

Maybe this can counter the inflence he obtained on the left.

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Offline Shaddy
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #56 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:02 am 
Lives in sente
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . 4 O 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . 2 3 . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Why make a two-space extension towards your thickness?
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #57 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:41 pm 
Tengen
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DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . X . . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

no comment...

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #58 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Click Here To Hide Diagram Code
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . X . . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . 4 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #59 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:51 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . X . . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . X O . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 145. Magicwand vs. Kirby (Christmas Special)
Post #60 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:14 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . X . . O . X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . X O . . . . 5 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think the alternative I thought of works:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . C . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . X . . X . . O 7 X . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X O O . X . O . O X 8 . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . X O . . 6 . 5 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or at the marked spot either, instead of atari.

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